Went to look at a job a while back, noticed that the house was immaculate, everything highly polished and neat. We discussed the work they wanted doing on their kitchen, and I gave them a ballpark price. A week or so later she rang back saying they wanted to go ahead. By then I’d already decided I didn’t really want to do their job because they seemed like they were going to be very fussy but she seemed very keen and I don’t like to turn work away so I went to see them again to iron out the details.
As it happened I took my painter with me. We had a good look and a discussion and I said I would get back to them. Afterwards my painter pointed out that it was going to be very difficult to get the results that they would require, and that maybe it would be better if we didn’t get involved with them at all.
Thinking about it I agreed, and much as I hate to turn down work I realised that this was a job that was going to go WRONG. There was no way we were going to be able to satisfy these people within the context of a normal piece of work.
I rang a friend of mine who does similar work using different methods, and he said he would be OK to take the job on.
I wrote them a letter saying that we were concerned about various aspects of their job, and I included the number of my friend who was waiting to hear from them. And I said sorry as well.
This evening the phone rings and it’s the husband, determined to give me a piece of his mind. He starts off saying how disappointed they were, how their kitchen was no different to anybody else’s and that they couldn’t understand why we didn’t want their job.
I tried to explain but he wasn’t listening. I was unable to use any kind of logic with him, every point I made bounced off him. Afterwards I thought ‘thank God I didn’t start that job’ but I still feel bad about the whole thing.
Did I do the right thing?
John
Replies
Run away don't walk. Your perceptions were right on. Imagine trying to collect money from these folks. I have an old saying " some people can't be helped" Roger
You absolutely did the right thing. Sometimes, all the money in the world isn't worth the headache that goes with it. Some people pride themselves on giving those headaches, some even profit from it. I knew one guy that could nitpick something to death - he would go after anyone, always wanted something for nothing. There are people like that out there. (There is also a small group of people that thrive on working with problem clients. Obviously you are not in that group.)
Learning when to walk away is an important part of any business. You tried to do the right thing by sending someone else. Now, we have to work on learning how to let it go...On to the next one.
Don
Sometimes a little white lie is just the thing. Trying to explain to perfectionists that their quality level is beyond your comfort zone, although a noble gesture, was probably never going to work. To them, you gesture probably sounded like criticism rather than a genuine concern to avoid a future problem.
Trust your instincts, though. I've worked for a number of architectural firms that had clients like that. Different perspective, but the same animal. Clients deserve to be picky (and if they're smart, they should be), but it should be finite. And if you had a gut feeling that the requests and nitpicking would be endless, chances are it would be.
Chalk it up to experience and move on. Not a biggie.
John, I think you made the right decision. And old saying: You never lose money (or sleep) on a job you didn't take.Later in my life as a contractor I once was on a sales call for someone who I felt would be unreasonably picky. I changed the tune and did not allow him to set me up. I asked him to write out a set of detailed specifications from which I would give him a price. The specs would also include the tolerances, both dimensional, cosmetic, etc., for which I would be required to meet. He was flabbergasted as my request, saying it would be better to use mine. I replied that I was not stupid enough to set myself up for that situation, and that since it was his home, his money and his desires I'd have to meet to get paid, it was only logical that he created them. He came back that it was I who was the professional. I retorted that was true, but it was "his eyes" (what he saw) that I would have to satisfy, as far as caliber of workmanship.I even hit him up with what the big boxes do and pay me 100% in advance. Didn't work. I really felt sorry for the guy who eventually took the job, because I determined he was trying to set me up.
"I even hit him up with what the big boxes do and pay me 100% in advance."Be careful with that one - you have to have a huge bond posted (like multi-million dollar) to qualify for that legally, at least here in California. You also have to put the pre-paid funds into a holding account until the job is completed and signed off. That way the consumer is protected from someone taking all their money and disappearing. The big boxes are able to afford the bond because they operate on a huge scale on a national basis, and they do hold the funds until the project is complete, but I doubt many private business people are in the same position."A completed home is a listed home."
Lisa, I never take monies in advance, even when offered, other than for material. I was just playing with him.
John,
please allow me to buy you a beer and congratulate you on your astute move.
You just " made"/saved a couple thousand dollars with that phone call.
Take someone special out and celebrate!!!!!!
Very best wishes,
Stephen
Edited 6/30/2005 4:32 pm ET by Stephen_Haz
There are folks who get off on making you feel bad. Stay away from them.
So, do you know if they've contacted your friend? Has he been given proper warning? ;)
If you felt bad about the job before you even started, you did the right thing. I don't know these people and I can understand how they might be upset, but unless both parties want to work together, there is little point in proceeding. These folks don't have to be jerks or in anyway bad people, they may be just a bad fit for you. They should keep looking until they find someone who feels comfortable working with them. It takes all kinds.
You have good instyincts and arelearning to focus them in alignment with your goals. learn to trust yourself more
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where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
You did good. I go by my instincts alot and they are very seldom wrong. If you felt they were setting you up..they probably were. I would talk to my bud who I refered them to about them also...
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Is it just me, or does piffin's post sound like advice from Obi-wan? ;-P
Maybe it is because I just EpsiodeIII last week?
"You have good instyincts and arelearning to focus them in alignment with your goals. learn to trust yourself more""s it just me, or does piffin's post sound like advice from Obi-wan? "No, or it would sound like this.Instinct are good you have.Yourself trust you must learn.
Correct, I think you are.
jt8
Never put off until tomorrow what you can do the day after tomorrow. -- Mark Twain
Sounds like Yoda to me.
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Whadda mean it's last call? I just got here.
babbled a mouthful, you have :)....regards
RROAaaarrrghhh
Lots of support here, thanks to all of you. Am I right in sensing a lot of 'been there, done that' ?
I did warn my friend about them, but he's hungrier than me and is more ready for this kind of challenge.
I didn't mention that when we got there they were next door, so they went into their house in front of us and made something of a show of removing their shoes. We did the same, didn't think about it much at the time but afterwards I reckoned they were making a point. It worked too, I won't be walking aound in their house with my shoes on!
John
I get calls like that occasionally. If my workload can't handle the job and the caller seems nice enough, I'll pass it on to a colleague I trust and can handle the job. If it's someone whose bad reputation precedes them, or has other wise made a jerk of themselves, I give them my ex-boss' name.
I had a guy who I did some work for while at another company, call me eight times in one day. Twice to my home, four times to my office and twice to my cell phone (and the answering machine at the office says "only for use in emergencies"). Why? He wanted some plans revised that I had completed eight years ago while at the other company. He never built the house, in the meantime the rules had changed, and now he wanted me to change my plans because "I was no longer working for the other company". Huh? It's like asking a doctor for a second opinion of his own diagnosis.
So I told the guy no. This was last summer. Since then, he's called at least six more times, telling me he has all the files and paperwork and he's now "desperate". Yeah, well I'm now "busy". Call me in a decade or two, willya?
John,
Just had one last week. Looked at a ceiling to be repaired and the guy starts asking for a price right now. I say I need to think it over and will call him in a couple of days. He says "you do this all the time how hard can it be?". I tell him I find if I blurt out a price I am usually wrong one way or another. He say "come on surely you can give me a price right now". I say there are guys in the phone book that might but not me and start for the door.
He says "ok ok will you send me something?" I say sure and I go home and type a letter saying thank you for the oppurtunity but I checked my schedule and there is no way I can get to it soon which I can see they were hoping for. Maybe another contractor can get them in sooner but thanks again.
His wife calls and says they got the letter and can't believe I am that busy with my attitude and that if that is how I do business I am pathetic. So I send a nice letter saying no thanks and I am now pathetic. I think I made the right call. And I think you did too. DanT
Yoda speak, that is.
Piffin's remark, More like Obi-wan, it was.
sum calls me de Oracle
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
That reads like a fortune cookie.
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
>>Did I do the right thing? <<
You know you did.
Whadda mean it's last call? I just got here.
i see you've been learning to use the force
:o)
Yup.
You were probably dead on in seeing where this job was going. My folks have friends like this. They're retired so they have all day to call back contractors and whine about every small detail. They're so bad that a few years back they bought a new car and hounded the car so much about minor b.s. on the car that the dealer took the car back and told them to never come back.
Riverfest 2005. Be there, or be square.
http://www.hay98.com/
The fact that he considered it OK to call and chew you out for NOT taking the job is all the confirmation you could need. The guy is just gagging to stick it to someone.
He should have thanked you for passing him on to your friend instead of merely walking.
Everything, 100% of it, depends on how you look at it.
DW
You did the right thing. I have used the letter approach in a similar situation several times. Sometimes a 'one sided conversation' is the way to go.
Wow, you just saved yourself a HUGE amount of headache! (and probably $$)
Give a big sigh of relief that you got away from them cleanly, and move on. I think you owe yourself a porterhouse and pint for that call.
Just hope you told your friend what kind of people they were.
jt8
Never put off until tomorrow what you can do the day after tomorrow. -- Mark Twain
HO here says same - did right thing.
The letter with suggestions for referral was a nice touch. Only thing I would add that if you were thinking bad thoughts on the first couple of tours, but you smiled brightly and revealed nothing, then you could have led them on.
I like brutal honesty about the job (although maybe short of "I just don't like you").
We keep going back to a contractor who has turned us down flat for a good proportion of our requests, accepted others happily, and even said "if you really want me to do this one I'm going to quote for a shocking mark-up because my good people (whom you would have to live with in your home for x weeks) will quit if I make them do this prep/scut to your taste unless I plate the job in rubies". Fair enough.
Yeah, and I'll add that I much prefer someone who says "not really interested" vs someone who says he'll do it and then either does a half-assed job because he doesn't want to do it, or just never gets around to showing up.
John -
You did the right thing but I would (and have) done it with a "little white lie" about how booked up you are.
The only other tactical mistake you made was to make a second trip to "iron out the details", then sending a regrets letter. I can see where they might have gotten some confusing signals from you.
a "little white lie" about how booked up you are.
The only other tactical mistake you made was to make a second trip to "iron out the details", then sending a regrets letter. I can see where they might have gotten some confusing signals from you.
In my own defence I must say that the 'too booked up' defence would have been too easy for them to see through because they contacted me due to my local (and ongoing) advertising campaign. I would pretty much need to suspend that campaign for the 'too booked up' excuse to work, and there's no way I'm going to do that, it works too well.
Also, I was fully intending to do the job until after the second visit when my painter pointed out the difficulties that I hadn't noticed. It was just a question of the scales tipping in favour of not doing the job (plus there was the thing with the shoes).
In fact, right at the heart of this whole situation is the fact that I only came slowly to the realisation that this job was no good for me. I wished I'd seen that right away, and I've now learned a bit more and maybe next time I will spot the warning signs sooner. I still think I would have got the aggravation anyway, no matter when I'd told them. I hate aggravation and in the past have done stuff I didn't want to do in order to avoid it. Not this time, though
John
"I was unable to use any kind of logic with him,"...
This is the crux of the problem you detected and which warned you off the job.
There are all sorts of ways to deal with this sort of thing but they all come down to clearly expressing you view, or not, thanking them for their consideration, time and offering the job, or not, and saying something along the lines of: 'I understand your disappointment'- whether you do or not-, 'I'm sorry you feel that way' - Even if you don't feel it- and a polite and professional exit, 'good day sir'.
If they are giving you this amount of grief over not taking the job consider for a bit what sort of situation you would be a few hundred hours into the job. When you are emotionally committed to the job and both you and they have ego on the line. Be thankful you have steered clear of a job for which you are mismatched for.
Don't second guess yourself. Don't look back and worry about what might have been. Don't make any great efforts to find out how it is going for the man who took it on. No need to queer his deal with misgivings.
He may have difficulties. Difficulties of a sort you might not have had. He may have few problems. Where you may have rather more. Sometimes people and jobs mesh and sometimes they don't. He may enjoy things that might have driven you off the deep end. Or the other way round.
If the other guy has few problems congratulate him. If he has many don't gloat. Commiserate. If he asks why you didn't take it leave it at: 'It wasn't my type of job' or similar.
If some day these folks ask you to look at another job, not as uncommon an event as it would seem even in this case, act as if it is the first. Clean slate all around. No regrets. No baggage.
I think Kenny Rogers said it best:
"You've got to know when to walk away, and know when to run."