Have you ever been asked to do a slop job? To hurry up by someone who doesn’t know when its time to roll and when its time to take you time? When you see someone squaring a line with a framing square does it make you cringe? Do you think split jamb doors have hurt the trade? Do you wonder why anyone swings more than a 20 oz? Do you know what the old timers used to call ‘the pull’ on a stair layout? How about razor sharp chisels, festool stuff. hand coping? Any one? I will let you practice the trade. Contact [email protected]. Check out our website. and I also have some pic’s under the title Georgetown remodel under the photo ection here.
Edited 6/3/2005 7:35 pm ET by quicksilver
Replies
Ryan, Beautiful work. Jay
Nice web site!
Edited 6/4/2005 12:46 am ET by Jay72
Good post. I hear what you're saying and I think you might be preaching to the choir here. Probably most of the pros who take the time to come online and join a forum such as this one are the ones who really care and take pride in their work. In this day and age of instant gratification where everything is expected to be done yesterday and work & workers are deemed disposable, a time learned skill and craft flies in the face of all that. I never imagined when I was younger that I would ever become a craftsman, and as I found myself on the road of skilled work I would sometimes despair a bit because I thought myself as 'better than all of that.' Today the story couldn't be more different, and I am honored, and indeed humbled (seeing some of the craftsmanship posted here), that I take a place with the rest.
There will always be schlock builders, the ones who don't give a hoot, or want everything done in split time in order to save $$ at the expense of quality, I'm sure it was always that way. Let that go and keep on doing what you do the way you do, you reap what you sow. Whether people know it or not quality is what they're after. A hundred years or even a year from now folks are not going to care if something got done in three days or two weeks, or who got paid what and how much more or less it was than the next guy. They will just be admiring the quality of work and how it has lasted so well.
Thanks. I truly appreciate the comment especially when you said you reached some times of doubt in your career. I guess we all feel that frustration because a lot of times it just doesn't seem like a craftsman gets the respect he deserves. On the other hand we might get to go into a some great restaurant or beautiful house and get to proudly think, " Wow, I built this". Or "I was part of this" and remember all the crazy and cool things that happen in building. That for me is a priceless experience.
"Do you know what the old timers used to call 'the pull' on a stair layout?"
no, what is "the pull"? BTW, I tried to acess your site, for some reason my server couldn't find it.
What I was taught as the term 'pull' meant using the hypontuse to lay out with rather than rise and run. The pull for instance of a 7 1/2 / 10 would be 12.5. to use it in a stringer layout you multiply that number by 1, 2, 3 ... 11, 12 and so on. Tic it off on a line an inch or so inside the stringer board and use these points to guide your stair nuts. This eliminates gain and allows balusters to be cut to common lengths. I think the 'old timer style was to set the hypotenuse on dividers and roll them down the line. I was taught this by a Virginia stair builder who specialized in 1/4 turns and flares when I worked for him about ten years ago. Agreed it could be local. And probably was (the term)invented by some guy with his pouch zipped to his bibs, with ####stick rule Any of you guys ready to come work? The website is case sensitive. I'll try to put a link on here. http://www.robertsondevelopment.com/
quicksilver,
I like the method, but what do you mean by " ... set the hypotenuse on dividers and roll them down the line" ? Would you elaborate? I've got a bunch of stairs to cut and this sounds useful.
BTW, I got your website this time, nice work.
saul
Take your stringer board and scribe a line parallel to the edge. Figure your hypotenuse, say 12.5 for this example. Set dividers or trammel points 12.5'' 's apart using a combination square blade or framing square. Set one side of the trammel points on the line and the other up the line (12.5'') and mark both points then keep the point farthest up the line in position and turn the other point around the axis arriving 12.5'' 's farther up the line, mark and repeat the process for the number of rises. Attach your stair nuts to the framing square at the rise and run points and they should be right on the marks on the board. Always rely on the points and not the square. Carpenters don't get many chances to build stairs these days, so when even building a treated deck staircase learning, employing and practicing this method will preserve the trade for those who haven't wacked their thumb yet. This method is a little more accurate, I think but for some reason I've never put it into practice, probably because I was taught with the calculator. More accurate? Because it eliminates rounding the decimals down and the converting them to fractions. I know that its a miniscule difference but for some of us, its just easy on the head knowing that the most accurate method was employed. I think: exact layout + the natural mechanical error (I'm talking carpentry not cabinetry) that even the best of us will have, will equal quality work. Sloppy layout plus the same mechanical error will not be the same quality and might sometimes be unacceptable. Sloppy layout + sloppy carpentry = a broken heart Do you know what I mean?
Well since you brought it up. Besides your website, what you got going on. Nice stuff. Looks kind of "modern":). My boy and a Brit(traditionally trained) are up there in Reston doing one of them 17 story high rises. I was suppose to run the trim crews but decided against it. Turns out its a nightmare from hell according to the boy.
I guess with all them x's you don't care for stick rules :)...Did you ever notice when you put the two words "the" and "IRS" its spells theirs
I'm curious too, what is 'the pull' on a stair layout. Nice website by the way.
Mike
Being the old geezer that I am and not likeing "not knowing" I'm willing to venture and opinion on "the pull". Having consulted all 8 books on stairs I have, plus an english friend. and its not mentioned anywhere. I think "the pull" is a local thing for the distance on the diagonal from nosing to nosing or the entire distance on the diagonal from top nosing to theoretical bottom nosing on the floor.
Dave
who wears his cloth nail apron zipped to his carpenters bibs, uses a 16oz hart trimmer, does layout with a Lufkin X46F, Who's framing square has all 7 rafter tables and uses it to make circles. sets the door frame,routs the hinges and hangs the door to the dime. Carries two sets of chisels. One me one for "them". But hasn't used a coping saw since discovered a side grinder is faster,more accurate albeit a little dusty
.......
'bout 25 yrs.ago, a guy interviewin' me for a carp. job asked me if I knew what a "flint block" was.
"Logic, like whiskey, loses it's beneficial effect when taken in too large quantities." Lord Dunsany
If he didn't mean plinth block , then I confess I don't have a clue :)There are four boxes to be used in defence of liberty: soap, ballot, jury and ammo. Please use in that order - Ed Howdershelt
Sets the frame. A man after my own heart.
Have you tried putting an add in the Washington Post?
I put an add in there about a month ago. It read: Accomplished carpenters wanted for challenging work in DC. U St. corridor. Metro access. Come work for a company with a " higher standard" Good wages and benefits.I'm really not sure how the wages and benefits line was worded but they were both mentioned. The add reaped 2 metal stud guys that are still with me. One lead carpenter who was fired in three days and a helper who was also fired.
I know your saying the two metal guys. That not too bad but they're next.
The amount of rework after the firings, time spent on the phone and in interviews and the fact that I have a deadline fast approaching makes me scared to run another add. It takes a lot of time. It's very frustrating. I know there are a bunch of good guys around, but I wish I could find a couple. When I was in my twenties everybody I knew was a tradesmen and many were carpys and serious too but now almost twenty years later most have left the trades.
I worked around there in the eighties, pretty rough neighborhood then.
But, I was mostly slingin' mud, and if somebody ripped me off, I wouldn't have been out too much.
Nowadays, with the pilferin' and the G. D. parkin' enforcement, nobody wants to go down there. Plenty of work in Va. and Md.
"Logic, like whiskey, loses it's beneficial effect when taken in too large quantities." Lord Dunsany
Sadly I hear you. The parkings a problem, although we've had only 3 or 4 tickets in, well since Oct. Couldn't wrap my head around that math. Thanks Mike if you hear of anyone send 'em my way.
It was hard to get help when I was workin' down there.
Keep your mind open to hirin' some young guys and trainin' them."Logic, like whiskey, loses it's beneficial effect when taken in too large quantities." Lord Dunsany
I would just say keep trying.
Iwould also like to say a simple SEP retirement plan would certainly entice some older, experienenced help. (THen again, you may prefer youth!)