A carp once told me if you carried a small saw in the tool box to work every day you never would have to take off to cut it as he took it home on the way home a little at a time to a full load getting paid to “remove ‘ it and clearing roadways but he lived rural, but more like it in the “sticks ” literally.
Fire wood stats were posted in a link listing different values than the book I have I always reference to. The stat did come from Nebraska in the link. Anyway my book lists Live Oak as the heaviest wood in the world weighing in a 55 lbs per cubic foot at 12 percent moisture level. Im not sure what one looks like or if we even have any. What say you?
The easiest wood we have to split is Ash and is pertially dry considering M content .
The provided chart lists White Oak at 47.28 lbs per cubic ft. My chart shows 7 differnt species ranging from 39 to 45 in Swampy Oak which to me is known as water oak as the heaviest of 6 with Live Oak weighing in as the grand champion at 55.
Of course there are many woods we dont have listed in the charts in Arkansas such as the Texas favorite Mesquite. Ive been to that state and there arent many other choices in the Southern portion of the state as its about all I saw and dont understand why they let complete ranges fill up with them. The land they grow on looks like prime cattle grazing. Im probably wrong .
What wood do you have to burn and what is the most common wood for burning ? Our Oaks in red and white plus the hickories are the favorite , but we have an abundance of ash and elm which the latter is normally left to rot. Some people burn it that have it close by but we dont normally haul it . Its the devil to split and isnt a cold winter wood . Moderate temp wood at best and has a tendency to set amd smolder like church yard mold.
Tim
Replies
What's up with your post? To me, it appears to be about 2' wide. I had to scroll and scroll to read the danged thing.
Around here, split oak is the "holy grail" of firewood. At least for the town people. They want wood that looks pretty when it sits next to their fireplace.
Us farmers/rednecks don't really care what we burn. Generally we cut trees that die in the pasture or die and fall into fields. We also send a lot of time trimming trees back at the edge of fields so they don't take over. Seems like they gain about a foot a year if you don't cut 'em back once in a while.
It works out fairly well, really. Since the chainsaw and all the repairs are farm-related expenses, you can take 'em off your taxes. And you can burn the firewood to help heat your farm/shop.
I would think some of you trim guys who use chainsaws could do the same. (-:
I had my wood book laying on the key board. <G>
Sure its a business expense.
I keep up all my rentals which all have yards plus four are in the country. I also buy and sell a little land as I mentioned in another thread. If I can buy rough land ot undeveloped and clean it , it attracts eyes of passers by and even the talk of coffee shops that old Tim has bought and cleaned up another property that he will have for sale. Its not a lot of profit but its sound investment and moves quickly. I try to buy houses on such land and split it into lots which is target subjects. Hopefully everyone else is thinking about the residence value.
On my travels and jobs I hire out to is also quick wood often bringing in money for removal. The contractor is often the first to know about the need .
Always branches to trim back from houses and dead ones too. Just a little at a time as I go. Sometimes bringing in only several sticks to add to the stack. Ive been carrying a small saw I bought for tree trimming the pros here use. It fits behind the seat or in the cross over tool box. Its a 2.5 Echo that has the handle on top which cuts stakes and saws forming lumber for concrete. I attached a smaller tooth chain on it for lumber and it doesnt do too bad for R&R work cutting out bad floors and joices. I cut landscape timbers with it if I dont have my 12 smcs. Building fences is common use for it and not stretching cords or hauling a generator. I admit the battery powered skill saws have helped with that problem cutting dog eared fencing. Except the little chain saw can cut a dozen at time taken from bottom cuts that will be near the ground. Ive been thinking about building trusses with it . <G>
Tim
Hmm, I just started a new thread- unnessarily perhaps.
I'll ask in this thread as well. Living in Montana I get to choose between cottonwood and pine. The cottonwood would be considerably cheaper than pine.
Who's burned both? Which is better and how much better is it?
Thanks,
Lee
I've split TOO much wood in my life......
Similar to what bosshog said, my farming family always had plenty of "trimming" to do. When I was a kid, grandpa got Bulldoser happy for a few years, in at attempt to make more tillable land, so we cut, split and chopped.
I've always lived in wood heated houses (with gas furnaces, but being tightwads we shut them off and use 90% wood) and just cut up whatever was dead.
A lot of white and red oak around here..........mooney, red oak has leafs that are pointed at the tips, and white oaks leaves are rounded.
Also, my favorite heating wood is hedge. The stuff is really hard, but burns HOT and long. Plus we've taken about 2 miles of hedgerow off the farm, so we had ample supply. Apple wood is great for a fireplace fire.....
Cottenwood seems to burn really quck and doesn't put out much heat.
When in doubt, get a bigger hammer!
As I understand it BTUs in wood can be determined by it's weight, the more lbs. per cubic foot the more BTUs.We lived in the East for a while, great firewood. What we have out here would never get past the slash pile in the East but importing some decent hardwoods from the South or Midwest just doesn't work out on paper.Lee
A lot of white and red oak around here..........mooney, red oak has leafs that are pointed at the tips, and white oaks leaves are rounded.
Nope , yu misunderstood me .
Live Oak. Their are 8 classifications of white oak. Live as being one classification which to be would have to be separted by the bark, but maybe the leaf.
Bur
Chestnut
Live
Overcup
Post
Swamp chesnut
Swampy white
White
All in the white oak family.
Tim
cottonwood and pine.
Yuck.
Cotton wood weighing in at 21 to 25 at 12 percent moisture. Weighs a lot more wet.
Pine [you didnt mention what kind but our yellow pine has way to much pitch]
22 to 25 with out getting in to sappy woods.
Pretty poor compaerd to Oaks and Hickories. You would have to cut and stoke twice the wood to get to those values.
Cedars would be a better choice considering the low moisture contents in them. Those you are pretty much hauling in what they are going to be burning at or close. Ash is the same way.
Tim
Tim, you get it here for $25 a cord and I'll burn all the hickory you'd like to deliver.Cedar is not an option either.As to the pine, it's actually a term used around here to denote the pines, firs and spruces and larch is often lumped in as well. Moisture content is a function of EMC (equillibrium moisture content) which is temperature and humidity calculated to come up with the moisture content the wood will achieve under steady conditions. While trees cam have 500% moisture content (5 times more weight in water than wood tissue) it drops quickly out there where humidity is extremely low. Most wood weights are done at a standard moisture content or by specific gravity. Using specific gravity anything over 1 is heavier than water and I could come up with some exotics over 1 but no woods native to America over 1. Osage orange is .76, live oak whick I'm pretty sure is classed as a white oak is in the .59 range, almost a cork, Hah, hah, ha...I'm getting the idea that cottonwood is a crummy wood, not quite as crummy as pine but if I can get the cottonwood really cheap I should burn cottonwood this year.Lee
heavy wood? I have to share - here's some Lignum Vitae bearings for a water powered turbine (three turbines, actually) - it is heavy...View Image"there's enough for everyone"
Hey have any of you guys ever heard of a South american wood called Tornillo?
Tornillo in spanish literally means 'a screw' but that is what they call this wood.......its in abundance here, finishes beautifully, but I swear this stuff is twice as heavy as oak.
When in doubt, get a bigger hammer!
I've never heard of it but there are importers that put their own names on wood, it's possible I know of it as a different name. Exotics are not in my shop a lot these days, it seems domestics are what my clients have been wanting, so I'm really not that acquainted with the newest generation of imported woods. About ten years ago a lot of woods that didn't used to get imported began finding their way into America. I suppose as the top imports like rosewood, mahogany and ebony started getting scarcer furniture makers and importers alike were looking for "new" woods.If you were to get the latin name I could peruse my resources, see if I come up with anything.Lee
Hey have any of you guys ever heard of a South american wood called Tornillo?
not I - very seldom come into contact with exotics - see if you can find out a botanical name, I have resources if you can -
"there's enough for everyone"
David, lignun vitae is a weighty wood allright. It's been used as bearings and wear points for centuries, does it have a natural oil in it as well as being incredibly dense?I would guess there to be 20 or more woods heavier than water, I have played with a few.Lee
This is funny.
Ahh but lee lee lee ,
Their are 8 classifications of white oak.
Bur 40
Chestnut 41
Live 55
Overcup 39
Post 41.5
Swamp chesnut 41.5
Swampy white 45
White 42.5
All at 12 percent moisture content, not green. This means that when you burn Live Oak, 33,787,600 btu per cord . Wow my friend , thats serious buring. Should I have said the National Champion of all firewood? But no we wont just classify it in the white oak group because its awsome. The 12 percent moisture has bearing in this discussion because we are burning it for heat. Pignut Hickory slips into 2ond place above the rest of all the red and white oaks at 46.5 lbs respectively. So my polls show it as #2 in the nation.
All in the white oak family. One is called White , bit tis not Live Oak.
To simply give a weight in the white oak family is a grave injustice to my alleged National Champion of fire wood by weight. hehehehe
Tim
Edited 10/12/2005 7:34 pm by Mooney
Edited 10/12/2005 7:38 pm by Mooney
I'm not sure what your point is. There are a lot more oaks classified as white oaks than 8. Any oak that forms seeds on the current year's growth is a white oak, red oaks form seeds on the previous years growth. That is how the two are classified, it has nothing to do with leaf shape or the color of the wood although there are gross generalizations made. Having used many of the more obscure oaks I can tell you that there are species of white that look like red from the lumber perspective.If you want the national champion you have to turn to the densest wood in North America unless you want to ignore the fact that BTUs are related to density and the best determination of density is specific gravity and that live oak is not the densest wood native to North America.Now, if you want live oak as your champion go ahead and knock yourself out. I can't burn either that or osage orange unless it's scrap from a job.Lee
"If you want the national champion you have to turn to the densest wood in North America unless you want to ignore the fact that BTUs are related to density and the best determination of density is specific gravity and that live oak is not the densest wood native to North America."
Ive listed the numbers which breaks down to BTU which of course has to do with density.
If Live Oak is not the heaviest hardwood in the US , then what is it and its numbers? Moistue is also realitive because water wont burn as it actually retards the burn so a humidity level that is equal must be used. Until a moisture content is known its a big blank guess. Ive given the numbers for Live Oak and I cant get it either .
Lets take Red Wood for example . Green its listed as 210% sap wood & 86% heart wood when green moisture by volume.
White Ash is 46 & 44 percent realtive .
Between the two they are close to the same weight green off the stump.
Thats what Im getting at .
Tim
Edited 10/13/2005 8:05 am by Mooney
I'll make your day, Tim.You win.Lee
Ah, I was just kiddin bout that part .
If theres another fire wood out there I would like to have the knowledge of it is all.
Tim
>>> If Live Oak is not the heaviest hardwood in the US , then what is it and its numbers?
Tim, Tim, Tim :-)
The heaviest US native wood that I am aware of is the desert ironwood (olneya tesota).
http://www.desertmuseum.org/programs/ifnm_ironwoodtree.htm
Don't have specific gravity numbers but I've worked some small pieces that sink in water, meaning >60#/cuft. Reference that confirms below
http://www.blueplanetbiomes.org/desert_ironwood.htm
I doubt you would burn the stuff if you could find it ($$) but sad enough that's what some desert dwellers used to do in the old days (also in Mexico).
Now that you have the latin name, I'll leave it as an exercise to the reader to find out the BTUs per cord -I personally heat with oil :-)
charles, north of Boston
The desert ironwood only grows in the washes and valleys of the Sonoran Desert below 2,500 foot elevation. The Sonoran Desert is located in southwestern Arizona, southern California, and the northwestern part of Mexico. The Sonoran desert is known as a hot, dry desert. The vegetation is mostly desert scrub.
You call that fire wood? Its only a bush . Seems it is also in a place they dont even need fire wood . Well, the pictures dont show any so I guess its par.
A man could freeze to death trying to cut a load of that stuff as it would look like someone hauling off brush.
Tim
Where do you recommend storing firewood? We have an attached, unheated garage that the previous owners used to store wood in - but that would seem to invite moisture problems and insects. At the same time storing it under a foot of snow outside doesn't seem like a grand idea either.
Bob, thats a very good subject in its self .
First off wood needs to be preheated and dried whether that optition is avaliable or not . That normally requires at least a bundle be sitting by the stove while the stove is loaded already and burning . That will take the out side moisture away and sitting in radience of the stove can raise the inside temps of the wood to over 100 degrees or more. Theres a drastic difference in that load firing off and a cold wet one from out side . Common sense eficiency at its best since the fire bow needs to fire at around 650 degrees before it does its thing. Temps before that are struggling to burn off the water and bring temps up to violate ignition temperatures. During that time the chimney will be a smoke cloud into the atmosphere. Better to let it exit than keep it in the stove dampered down and thus causing cresote.
A place to store a small amount in a garage is a great idea as long as the area is sprayed around it with Permithin weekly, but not directly on the wood. A band of it will buffer the house against insect invasion. There are others out there but thats the new one that will kill termites. I keep a rick of wood in the gararge but monitor the insects. A termite has to have a tunnel they build themselves and be protected from the atmosphere or they will die in seconds. Permithin wont allow it .
A lot of information has been written about drying wood and covering it out side. One of the best set ups I ever saw was a homade storage building covered with old sheet iron. [roof and walls] The top of the 12x12 treated post building had two wind turbines installed on each side of the peak. The wall sheets were cut intentionally 3 inches too short allowing air to circulate to the top. The building was placed in full sun and painted flat black with equipment enamel . From the drying heat of the black building and the continous supply of forced air through the wood , the owner thought his wood recieved a years drying in a few months or less. The wood I seen in the building was placed in the late spring . I saw it in October and it looked bone dry and cracked open. The ends of the wood had drying cracks of a 1/4 inch and smaller in all the ends. I was impressed. Ive still yet to have it copied.
Tim
I dont mean to rub this in at all but make another , yet another , point that makes stove literature false.
They tell us name brand stove puts out 35,000 btu. End of quote. The bigger the stove rates higher btu. BS!
I keep saying the user has more control over numbers . So in this case heres how,
However on a cold night I want my stove to kick butt and exeed normal temps and still get a controlled burn, I switch to Hickory which is estimated at 28,565,880 btu per cord. On a cool night I burn a lower grade wood such as Ash which is easy to split and has a low moisture content green , but dry weighs in at 37.5 lbs = 23,037,000 btu per cord. Its only an average of 45% wet by volume instead of 75 %. When ever it hits the stack its ahead of the rest of the wood drying. So I burn it first and if I run out I go get some more to burn last. Oak and Hickory are saved for hard winter.
The difference of the btus are heat out put for most of it . Yes the heavy wood will last a little longer but Hickory and Oak is hot . Using the same air controls on my stove running Hickory, she will run at about 1500 degreeswith out the fan. Ash runs about 900 tops. If Elm is not bone dry it does good to break 650.
If I crank it up there are times when Ive got a good load of Hickory it will quickly get into the 2000 degree range which is too hot , but will clean the glass crystal clear after its been solid black. Its necesary at that point to go to fan. Theres no telling the btus its kicking out at those temps. Ill never get close to those temps with Elm bone dry and the stove wide open. It just wont fire.
Ive never had the enjoyment of sliding Live Oak in my stove but it must be awsome!
Tim
Edited 10/12/2005 8:10 pm by Mooney
...does it have a natural oil in it as well as being incredibly dense?
it's just as oily as it looks in the photo - feels like a heavy coat of wax - it was a treat to handle - I understand it is still commonly used as a bearing material for ship's props -
those pieces in the photo cost $4500
"there's enough for everyone"
....I like the blatant product placement...or was is used to provide a "sense of scale " ?"
....I like the blatant product placement...or was is used to provide a "sense of scale " ?
that's the photo I use for 'Breaktime' - if I post over with the tea drinkers at 'Knots' I use this one...View Image
I think I shouldn't have drank so many before taking the photos..."there's enough for everyone"
hahaheh, "here hold these while I get my bearings"HA HA HA HA HA HAAAAAAA..ha"
>>> Anyway my book lists Live Oak as the heaviest wood in the world weighing in a 55 lbs per cubic foot ...
I may be very off on this, but I have a hard time believing the above. I've played with many exotic woods (ebonies, rosewoods, lignum vitae...) that are considerably heavier. Many of those when dry are heavier than water, they sink (water is around 60 #/cu ft). I don't have my references in front of me, but IIRC some numbers around 70... of course you wouldn't go burning these, either because they're very scarce and $$, or because they are toxic (e.g. cocobolo).
Becareful what you dont believe ;
http://www.sfrc.ufl.edu/4h/Live_oak/liveoak.htm
Reigning in Georgia!
Now if you dont mind , proove your #60 lbs? For the National Championship of course. <G> You do have a chance as this article says "one of the heaviest". By the way 55 lbs is at 12 percent moisture which is considered dry, not at green weight.
Tim
Tim,
Your original post said "Live Oak as the heaviest wood in the world " which is different from the article/link you refer to "Live oak ranks as one of the heaviest native hardwoods" in 2 respects: 1) the heaviest vs one of the heaviest, and 2) native vs the world.
I came up with the 60 #/cu ft estimate using the following math (international units)
1 cc (cubic centimeter) of water weighs 1 gram (at the right pressure/altitude/temp...)
1 ft = 30 cm
1 cuft of H20 = 30x30x30 = 27,000 cc weighs 27 kg / (0.453kg/lb) = 59.6 lb
A link on lignum vitae
http://www.stjohnbeachguide.com/Lignum%20Vitae.htm
"Lignum Vitae is the heaviest and densest wood in the world and will rapidly sink to the bottom when placed in water."
I've tried it (along with blackwood, ebony, pink ivory and a few others...) it's true :-)
Ah But Sharp, it does not say what it weighs dry . It will sink to the bottom of the water when green? [On the ropes but not beaten] LOL>
You said you didnt believe [remember]
Virgin Islands does not vie for the National Champion Ship , but I did say the heaviest wood in the world, but not Im back peddleing to National , lol. hahaha.
So if you should proove the dry volume at 12 percent air dry weight [which you aint gotter done yet] what would be the heaviest hardwood in the US?
Good match, lol.
Tim
Tim, LV is never reallt wet or dry, it is SO oily, it barely changes weight. Bearing and plane soles stay slippery for YEARS. Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Money don't talk, It Curses
(the other Bob)
Dang, I had you in the "evicted" column of my scorecard. Is your time out over? Are they letting you come play again?Lee
I was still here, just got flagged from the bar for 14 days. Never was told why by TPTB, just speculation by another "been bumped-ee".
S'ok..I didn't miss much obviously. Same ol, same ol. Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Money don't talk, It Curses
(the other Bob)
Ahh,.. but you know the rules my lad .
You must show your hand to win da milk bones. {G}
You didnt think I was gonna admit defeat on an assumption did ya? {G}
Im probably beat but it takes getner done . hahaha
Me hand must touch the table my friend before its over.
Tim
I've got some Ash firewood that burns great and in Michigan it looks like all the Ash trees are going to become firewood. Like mine, the Ash is infested with the Emerald Ash Borer beattle. The litte buggers burrow around under the bark, "ringing" the tree and killing it. Of course, we can't ship any of this wood anywhere, even within Michigan. In fact, a local nurseryman was arrested for selling Ash trees to an out-of-state buyer. EAB's came to America on Chinese pallets, it is alleged.
Im aware .
For two years running I believe it attacked our southern yellow pine and we took a big loss . The next two years it attacked our red oaks only. White oaks stood pretty in the middle of it all. Where I live there were thousands of acres damaged.
Red Oak lasts for a few years before it rots especially if its still standing which a lot of ours is still erect with the bark falling off it . It dried on the stump sticking in the air and its free in out national forrest. The good thing about the fire wood part of it is that you can haul a third weight in cord volume on a truck. Normally we haul it green and it lightens up on the stack so we hauled home a bunch of water.
Tim