Replies

1. 
   MrBill | Feb 07, 2008 05:59am | #1

   Edward,

       I really dont know that Lexan is going to stop someone that really wants to get in. We use it on race cars for windows, and even though it is strong it is certainly not that strong. If someone wants to kick it in, it wont be hard.

   Just my opinion,

    

   Bill Koustenis

   Advanced Automotive Machine

   Waldorf Md

2. 
   pgproject | Feb 07, 2008 06:04am | #2

   Here in San Francisco, the "Security Ordinance" requires protection on glazed entry doors. They accept either wired glass or Plexiglas (Lexan?) coverage- we used 3/16" screwed to the inside. Of course, if someone really wants to get in, they can use dynamite... but the plex will make it so they can't simply throw a brick through the window- it's pretty tough stuff.

   Bill

1. 
   DanH | Feb 07, 2008 06:18am | #4

   Lexan (polycarbonate) is far superior to Plexiglass (acrylic) when it comes to resisting breakage. In fact, for the proposed application the weak link would be the screws.
   If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader

3. 
   bridge_dog | Feb 07, 2008 06:16am | #3

   Lexan will only be as strong as the frame it's put into.

4. 
   DanH | Feb 07, 2008 06:19am | #5

   Make sure that nothing you do affects egress requirements.

   If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
5. 
   alwaysoverbudget | Feb 07, 2008 07:27am | #6

   i'm with dan,make sure you can get out of every room if there is a fire. whats worse they steal your prized 8 track collection or theres a fire and your found by the window trying to get out.

   i have the same feeling about double cyl deadbolts,if a renter wants them i make them sign a piece of paper that in case of fire they put the things in not me. larry

   if a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?

6. 
   calvin | Feb 07, 2008 02:17pm | #7

   Since you'll be drilling near the edge, I would recommend using a brad pt drill bit.  It'll peel away the plastic and be less likely to crack out while drilling.

   A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.

   Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.

   http://www.quittintime.com/

    

1. 
   Novy | Feb 07, 2008 02:31pm | #8

   Hmmmmmmmmmmm?

   Never tried a brad point in plastic. The manufacturers recommend a 90 deg. twist bit. I have also used saw tooth bits for larger holes.

   http://www.emplastic.com/ 

   On a hill by the harbour

1. 
   calvin | Feb 07, 2008 02:37pm | #9

   Long time ago a glass cutter told me about a brad pt.  Also showed me how some applied heat (torch) cleared up the edge.  Just continued to use the bradpt idea even when Lexan came in.  Maybe it doesn't shatter out like the old plexi.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.

   Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.

   http://www.quittintime.com/

    

1. 
   Novy | Feb 07, 2008 02:55pm | #10

    Lexan is far superior when it comes to shattering and I say that from experience. Customer wanted a doggy door in a patio door and genius me specced the thermopane replacement as plexiglass to my glaziers. Well the glaziers knew better but forget to mention that part to me. When they tried to cut the doggy door cut out in the plexi it shattered.The lexan is still perfect..........

    Back to the OP's question. The egress really is an issue and I would not want to keep a screwgun at every window nor would I want to be taking out screws with a fire at my back.

    Maybe a bit far fetched but I suppose you could piano hinge one side of the lexan and put some heavy duty barrel bolts on the other. Again only as good as the screws holding it. 

   On a hill by the harbour

1. 
   Matt | Feb 07, 2008 03:06pm | #11

   I had the exact same expierence with doggy door and plexiglass.

   BTW- I guess the lexan would have to be fairly thick too... ?

2. 
   Novy | Feb 07, 2008 03:18pm | #12

   We used 1/4" lexan with pine blocking to build up to the thickness for the insert. The door is in it's third year with 3 dogs. 

   On a hill by the harbour

3. 
   Sphere | Feb 07, 2008 03:20pm | #13

   1/4" at least. and grease up the Bank Card, it is $$$.

   Used to make clear templates for seeing how bookmatched grain lined up on guitar bodies and get flaws in cutaway areas, so we used a template for every model, and buying all that Lex got to be a noticable expense.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

   "Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"

4. 
   edwardh1 | Feb 07, 2008 05:00pm | #14

   My real question is which is best-
   1. screw the lexan on the outside so that if they beat on it its a compression load- use lots of screws (and risk vandals having a square drive screwdriver)
   or
   put the lexan inside (unsightly) and lose strength as the only thing holding it against a pounding from the outside would be the screws.

5. 
   Novy | Feb 07, 2008 05:08pm | #15

   Outside would be more secure in my opinion but you still need to take egress into consideration. You can also buy security fasteners which are used in prisons etc. that require a specialty type of screwdriver. 

   On a hill by the harbour

6. 
   edwardh1 | Feb 07, 2008 05:20pm | #16

   egress comments understood- egress will not be restricted if I mount it on the crank out part of the window

7. 
   Novy | Feb 07, 2008 05:55pm | #18

   DUH ! For some reason I had double hung windows fixed in my minds eye.

   I would definately put the Lexan on the outside and I bet you could probably source some sort of small carriage type bolt and through bolt leaving no way to undo the fasteners from the outside.

   I obviously have too much time on my hands this morning but you may have some condensation issues. You might want to put some vent holes in the equation or consider sealing it with silicone. I am sure some of the old timers who remember the Pella windows fiasco might chime in......... 

   On a hill by the harbour

8. 
   BillHartmann | Feb 07, 2008 07:18pm | #25

   How about, none of the above.Use a safety and security film.http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/WF/3MWindowFilms/Solutions/Residential/?PC_7_RJH9U5230GE3E02LECFTDQGGG7_nid=NCDJ14LQVPbeT4DCJBL6BVglhttp://www.shattergard.com/home.htmlHere is one DIY source.http://www.diywindowsecurity.com/
   .
   .
   A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.

9. 
   frammer52 | Feb 07, 2008 08:39pm | #26

   bill, I like that a whole lot better than lexan.

10. 
    pgproject | Feb 07, 2008 08:44pm | #27

    I think some of you are making this more difficult than it needs to be...Screws will be plenty strong enough- get a drill bit designed for plastic (here TAP plastics carry them)- it will drill fine, go slow, and not too close to the edge- use a decent looking screw. This should be plenty strong to resist everything but a sledge. Depending on the size of the opening, 3/16" thick should be OK, too.If the appearance bothers you, then, by all means, use some sort of frame.Do it all the time : )Bill

11. 
    DanH | Feb 07, 2008 05:58pm | #19

    The problem with the outside is that rain will get behind the plastic. If you don't mind that then I'd attach them with GRK cabinet screws (torx head).
    If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader

12. 
    DanH | Feb 07, 2008 06:00pm | #20

    And the suggestion of vent holes is a good one.
    If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader

13. 
    edwardh1 | Feb 07, 2008 06:00pm | #21

    Building has great overhang- rain not a problem
    do the screws you mentioned use a special bit?

14. 
    DanH | Feb 07, 2008 06:14pm | #23

    Torx bit. Best to buy the GRK brand bit, but any torx bit will work.After the screws are in place you can fill the bit holes with caulk or glue, for a little extra security.The GRK screws are expensive, but essentially unbreakable. The cabinet screws have a washer head so they're well suited to fastening plastic. A little hard to find, but one of our local Ace hardware stores carries them.
    If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader

15. 
    sisyphus | Feb 07, 2008 11:11pm | #28

    When I fasten lexan or plexi to windows I use washers, screws, and oversize holes to accomodate expansion and contraction which is, admittedly,  probably less of a concern in your climate. I have also epoxied or drilled out the heads of the screws to discourage future "maintenance". Bill's security film suggestion was my first thought as well but I have no experience with those products.

16. 
    CapnMac | Feb 07, 2008 06:14pm | #22

    Well, given that a crank-out window is not the best egress window any way . . .

    Rather than go to the frame, I'd probably bed against the existing frame, and use a stop screwed through the jambs and head & sill. 

    This avoids several things.  Boring through the polycarbonate for one.  Not adding a relatively-inflexible diaphram on the existing window frame, for another.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)

17. 
    peteshlagor | Feb 07, 2008 05:25pm | #17

    My doggie door is within a patio slider with glass.  They tempered it after cutting the hole.

     

7. 
   renosteinke | Feb 07, 2008 06:36pm | #24

   A few general notes ....

   Lexan is, when NEW, a whole lot stronger than plexiglass. It has two drawbacks, though ... it scratches more easily, and quickly loses it's strength in the sun.
   Look at an olderpiece, and it will appear yellow and cloudy. The fuzziness is caused by tiny scratches, mad by wind-blown dust. The yellowing is from the sun.

   Plexiglass is harder to work with, in that it is much more prone to cracking where it is drilled, and chipping where cut.

   Cuts are best made by scoring deeply with a knife, then bending. Sort of like working with glass. Sure, you can use a table saw, but your results re far less certain.
   Making holes is the real challenge. It's common for the cracks to start at the holes, and for small sections to break out.
   Using 90 degree (fairly blunt) points on the drill does help. You also want to make the hole oversize. After drilling, you might even want to polish a chamfer into the edges of the holes by, say, running a countersink in reverse.
   The real 'crack maker' is the tension the screw puts on the plastic when it's tightened down. This is why I say the real attachment should be made with caulk - I recommend Lexel - with the screws only holding the piece in place as the caulk cures.

   Indeed, why not cut the piece to sit inside the frame - like the glass does - and use window putty to hold it in place?

   I also agree that a vent hole or two is a good idea.

8. 
   Muttly | Feb 08, 2008 10:59pm | #29

   Are the break ins occuring by breaking out the window or forcing it open with a crow bar?

1. 
   edwardh1 | Feb 08, 2008 11:06pm | #30

   Braking a double pane, pulling the sharp pieces out and crawling in.
   2 condo units hit in a year
   on by teen age vandal type.

9. 
   Doug_David | Dec 27, 2021 03:25am | #31

   I think Lexan will only be as strong as the frame it's put into.

10. 
    Doug_David | Jul 28, 2022 02:43am | #32

    I prefer lexan for all window projects.