A year ago I paid off a small equity loan…20K and received a confirmation from the bank stating it was paid in full. The confirmation letter was nothing more than an informal notification IMO but it had the banks name, logo etc for the letter head. Shortly after that, I called them and requested the legal documents whci they said they would send. Well, being busy as he!!, I forgot about it and never got anything.
Now a year later, I’m looking to buy some land using my equity and find out by title search that the lein was never released. WTH?? Long story short…the original lender was Fleet Bank which merged or was taken over by Bank of America. Somehow during this merge, my loan was mis-labled as being in bankruptcy. As a result, I now have to wait until BofA contacts my states court to verify?? which could take upwards of 30 days. What a crock of horse shorts!!
My question for those familar with how this works is can they legally do this? I thought that once the note was paid in full, that was the end. And to make matters worse, other than my lack of attention to following up on this, a year has passed and no attempt was ever made to contact me. It has the makings of fraud to me, meaning they are falsely showing this lien as an asset for their bank even though the loan is paid in full…I have their document stating that fact including the correct acct # and amount paid
I’m in the process of filing a complaint with my states banking commsion and possibly seeking a lawyers assistance, but thought I might get some insight by posting here first.
I’ve upped my standards…now up yours
Replies
Pretty sure that's more incompetence than fraud.
I currently hold a couple of small mortgages and until I sign off the deed of trust, it's in effect (short of a court proceeding). A cloud on the title. That's the normal method in Va. Leaves the property owner in a weak(er) position.
As it's common for mortgages to be sold and resold, sometimes things get lost in the shuffle. Your example is the worst I've heard. Congratulations!
Shouldn't be any problem tapping your equity anyhow though. Got a local credit union? I've found them to be very accommodating, particularly compared to conventional financing. I've got horrible ratios (land/improvements) and non-standard income. Was consistently declined for financing until I hit the credit union.
Good luck.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
I haven't tried the local CU, maybe I should. It still smells like fraud to me, but your probably right.
The local bank I went to did pre-approve the loan, but when the title search showed the lien, they needed proof that it was paid. I brought the confirmation letter to them but it wasn't good enough. So then I asked BofA to at least give me a legal document showing the loan was paid in full. They couldn't!! WTFF...not those exact words mind you... I asked? We can't release the lien until this bankruptcy deal is cleared. Only the courts can do that. I was ready to bounce some heads but knew better. So I said...listen, you already acknowledged that an error was made during the merger, why can't you back track the file and correct it? Her reply...since it's already been transfered to that dept, there's nothing I can do. Bull squat I told her...and walked out.
Congrats?? you mean this crap happens quite often?
After the big market crash in the late 80's here in the northeast, I guess I shouldn't be surprised at what I'm facing. Then again, considering I have proof this note was paid, why do I have to wait a month to clear it up. I think these maroons should expidite everything at their expense...yeah right, fat chance of that happening.
Why would a CU be any different than a local bank? I've upped my standards...now up yours
Maybe your county clerk has a record of the lien being fulfilled?
[email protected]
I second Eric's suggestion. In New York State, it's the responsibility of the borrower to take the bank's paid in full letter to the County Clerk in order to remove the lien from your property records. That's the short hand version, anyway. So call the Clerk's office and ask how to get the lien removed.
In CT it's the lien holders responsibility to release it and send the borrow a copy of the release. I've upped my standards...now up yours
No, the records are kept at town hall and it still shows the lien I've upped my standards...now up yours
CU's tend to be very local, not regional or national, and really try to cater to the home town crowd."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Congrats?? you mean this crap happens quite often?
Snafus aren't uncommon. Yours is amazing, ergo, congrats. Probably shouldn't ask you about your karma... that was a joke
As Eddie pointed out, credit unions are local. In my experience, they also know how to think. You've been dealing with brain-dead petty bureaucrats. A local bank, if one exists there, may be similar to a credit union. Credit unions are more likely.
Was it a large LTV (loan to value) that you paid off? If not, the local bank you spoke with isn't much better than what you had. LTV is about the only thing a private lender concerns himself with, credit unions are similar.
I was offered a 60% LTV, undocumented (no income verification) loan, based on tax assessment. No appraisal, or fees, required. Those are folks who realistically manage risk. Not unlike myself.
Liability would seem to be an issue if you can prove a loss.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
re Karma...never been much of a believer in that stuff, but you may have a point. I have been known to be a ruthless coldhearted SOB when provoked. So considering that, maybe payback is rearing it's ugly head ;)
I knew what you meant about the congrats, but to put a banruptcy label on a loan after it's been paid off is beyond my comprehension. I was able to find out that the acct was transfered June 2006, 4 months after I paid it off.
"If not, the local bank you spoke with isn't much better than what you had."
Small LTV for the equity loan...worth about 5%. Currently I stand about 30/70 with the 1st mortgage, so even if I include the 5% it's still within the margin for a new loan. But the savings bank I am applying at does not do 3rd mortgages. I may go visit a CU and blow off the savings bank, but I nmeed to get this other matter corrected first. It's not the end of the world just yet, but it did dawn on me that suppose I was in the middle of selling this place and trying to close the sale. If that was the case, I would be flippin LIVID if I was faced with this crap.
I just don't see how they can do this and continue to hold me by the gnads, waiting for them to get off their dead azz and do something . They admit their error, agree that the loan is paid in full, yet I have to wait...GRRRR!! I've upped my standards...now up yours
A few years ago I heard a call to a talk show. The caller was making payments to an individual. But that person was using a bank to "process" the loan; ie collect the money and compute the interest.The buyer finishes making the payments and doesn't hear from the lendor.So he contacts the bank. They have not heard from the lendor in a couple of years and the money has just be accuring in an account.IIRC this was a contract for dead. But even if it was mortage/trust deed a vistion with Mr Judge was in his future..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
IIRC this was a contract for dead. But even if it was mortage/trust deed a vistion with Mr Judge was in his future.
A land contract is a very different deal. That's a private instrument, unrecorded. Major risk to the borrower/buyer. I wouldn't touch one, from either side. Not that they aren't uncommon in many areas. KISS is my motto.
Financing is pretty much everything in real estate. Virtually anything can work, on occasion.
Certainly I'm no expert, just moderately experienced. Including foreclosing on a deed of trust. Interesting process.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
"I currently hold a couple of small mortgages and until I sign off the deed of trust, it's in effect (short of a court proceeding). A cloud on the title. That's the normal method in Va. Leaves the property owner in a weak(er) position."
After the note is paid in full, do you have any legal right to not release the lien? I've upped my standards...now up yours
After the note is paid in full, do you have any legal right to not release the lien?
Not that I'm aware of, but that doesn't change anything. Not unlike showing up for a closing. Either you do or you don't. Usually has nothing to do with "legal right".
You'd like to think that the correct way is always followed. Sorry. I do, but that isn't always the case, particularly when you're dealing with clerks. Speaking of which, did you abuse one? That would explain all this.
Please don't go postal on us. Solutions exist.
Not to suggest you're fabricating, but your situation truly is "unbelievable". PLEASE, keep us posted.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Edited 5/14/2007 8:44 pm ET by VaTom
Your note and mortgage certainly contains an atty fee clause. I'd hire a lawyer.Regards, Scooter"I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow." WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934
I didn't abuse anyone specifically, but a couple years ago, when Fleet was at the helm, they skrewed up big time and I stuck it up their a.., this was all done by email. They were wrong and I gave them a taste of their own medicine...and I prevailed. Maybe my file has been stamped FFAH in bold print and it was passed on to BofA?? Either way, no matter if they are holding a grudge or not, the loan is paid in full and they refuse to release the lien. That is fraud IMO which by definition is deliberate deception. Maybe not the best word to use, but it fits the bill right now.
No postal here, not yet anyway. The worst I did so far was walk out of the branch with my last words being "bull squat"...literally.
"Unbelievable" is an understatement....Unimaginable is more like it. In my wildest dreams I couldn't come up something like this.
I'll sit tight til the end of the week and see if I get a response from the banking commission or from the registered letter I sent to BofA. If nothing happens by then, I'll contact an atty.
Thanks for the interest I've upped my standards...now up yours
BofA is federaly chartered and they are suervised by the Office of Controller of the Currency.http://www.occ.treas.gov/customer.htm
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Thanks Bill
I'll contact them as well. The more the merrier I've upped my standards...now up yours
Thanks for the interest
That was the easy part.
This has been immensely entertaining, unfortunately (for you). And the suggestions raised have been educational for me too. My experience with institutions is severely limited. Kinda looks like a not bad choice.
With private financing (my sole experience), there's always somebody to talk to. Which seems to be your problem. Some individual there can fix this in a hurry for you. Finding and getting that person's attention seems to be the problem.
I once had great satisfaction from asking for help with an insurance problem. State insurance commissioner really came through for me. Hope you find something similar, soon.
Liability is something I would explore. PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
He aims
He shoots
He scores!!!!!
Just got a e-reply from the banking commission. They agree the lien HAS to be released immediately. They are contacting BofA today and I should have the release by early next week. I've upped my standards...now up yours
Congratulations, assuming it happens. It's all about leverage, eh?PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
The bank should have sent you a discharge for you to record, or, recorded it for you. You need to make your problem the bank's problem. A letter from your attorney, reminding the bank that if you can't do the deal you are planning because they didn't provide a discharge, it will cost you a bundle and then the bank a bigger bundle. They can produce the necessary document in five minutes if they need to.
They only sent me a notice stating the loan was paid in full. The bank is responsible for issuing the release and updating the town records...at least that's what I've been told.
I sent a registered letter to the bank today and also filed a complaint with my states banking commission. I'll see if that gets any results before I hire an atty.
{They can produce the necessary document in five minutes if they need to.}
I'm sure they can, but they won't. It seems like it going to take an act of congress to get any where with this. My acct info is being withheld from me other than what I've posted already...like it's locked up tight in Fort Knox. Why?...I wish I knew or at least someone from the bank should tell me. Probably going to need an atty the way it's going. I've upped my standards...now up yours
...seems like it going to take an act of congress to get any where with this.
Just a thought....
Banks are typically regulated by the FDIC--in other words, by the federal government (after a fashion, anyway). Might try calling your Congressional representative--if his/her office is willing to put in a call to the bank it very well might help.
I've called twice when things were moving ridiculously slowly (once with Immigration, once with an FBI background check). In both cases I had resolution within about 48 hours. (And I didn't vote for either person previously or subsequently.)
Kathleen
Thanks, that's something else I can do on my own without an atty I've upped my standards...now up yours
Try emailing Donna Rosato at Money magazine: [email protected]
She does amazing things with corporate (and individual) screwups. This sounds like right up her alley.
Thanks...I'll drop her a note.
I thought of going to the local TV station too. There was a time when we had a guy who handled consumer problems. Haven't seen him for ages...wonder if something like that still exists. I've upped my standards...now up yours