That thread Jaybird started where he vent, well, thought this would hit home
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Where I work EVERYBODY borrows and loans out their tools to each other. We each all have tools that nobody else has, and trust one another, and have respect for the tools and co-workers On the other hand, lately, lots of my wife’s co-workers husbands and relatives borrow/stop by to use my stuff. Often it’s my tablesaw or bandsaw, or…….
Just say no doesn’t work, and I want to be a nice guy, but at what point does it end? Most of these folks are white collar types that can offer not much of value to “repay” the favor back in return. Summer is approaching, what do I do?
Jon
Replies
Tools are a investment. Would you go to one of those guys and ask to borrow their stock pofolio? I didnt think so. Just tell them that you need them for a job or you'll rent it to them. Once you get a rep as either a "nice guy" or a "hard a##" either one has equal and opposite effect.
You got to ask your self these questions. Do they know the actual value of the tools? Would they replace them if they damaged them? Would they even tell you if they damaged them?
I know some guys who have loaned tools out, they came back damamged and didnt tell the guy they borrowed it from that they damaged it. They did pay to repair it after he found out but then ,He found out because he needed the tool for a job. Then he was out the time in which HE had to take the tool in for repair and HE had to pick the tool up.
Darkworksite4:
El americano pasado hacia fuera ase la bandera
44292.2 in reply to 44292.1
You got to ask your self these questions. Do they know the actual value of the tools? Would they replace them if they damaged them? Would they even tell you if they damaged them?
I know some guys who have loaned tools out, they came back damamged and didnt tell the guy they borrowed it from that they damaged it. They did pay to repair it after he found out but then ,He found out because he needed the tool for a job. Then he was out the time in which HE had to take the tool in for repair and HE had to pick the tool up.
you forget about the liability...who pays if they cut their hand off on ur tablesaw?
Thanks to LearningJim, a Great Idea!
Make up a little form for them to fill out
Name
phone
DL#
Deposit
Release of liability!
SamT
yer preachin to the choir guy. I dont loan tools to anyone except those I really trust and I dont borrow any tool I cant afford to pay for.
Darkworksite4:
El americano pasado hacia fuera ase la bandera
Might want to have a chat with the wife? how are all these people coming to find out you have all these tools and what leads them to believe they can stop by to use them?
I've caught my future wife talking to people, "oh yeah, Neil won't mind.....what ever it its.....
Like hell I won't!
Oh ya cag, I was meaning to ask ya, you know that right-angle drill you got the other day? Well, I got this little project goin' and I was wonderin' if you wouldn't...
"Oh ya cag, I was meaning to ask ya, you know that right-angle drill you got the other day? Well, I got this little project"
Rez,
I heard CAG is moving to the Chi town area soon, not too far from me. Now I know who to go see if I need one, Thanx.
Jon
I got a right angle drill the other day?
Cool!
didn't know.. tell me where I can find it?
seriously, think you got the wrong guy.
"Might want to have a chat with the wife? how are all these people coming to find out you have all these tools and what leads them to believe they can stop by to use them?
I've caught my future wife talking to people, "oh yeah, Neil won't mind.....what ever it its....."
CAG,
Life is not that simple, and she's good at getting ahead playing real life politics. It's not that I mind that much, just for cripes sake, seems like word has gotten around...Go see Jon, he probably has one.
I have NO PROBLEM lending stuff out when there is reciprocity, And maybe there is in an indirect way. But I honestly don't know where to draw the line. My wife helps somewhat, but still...
Jon
Edited 6/12/2004 12:25 pm ET by WorkshopJon
I've caught my future wife talking to people, "oh yeah, Neil won't mind.....what ever it its.....
Like hell I won't!
That's easy for you to say now. But once the ring goes through your nose, it becomes "yes dear".Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
My wife use to offer me to her family to do things... Minor maintenence to quadplex remodel... the scope of work knew no bounds and it went on for years....
Major sore point here... but they're family justified it all till I had to call in markers when I lost the roof to our house to a tornado and to a relative they all declined to help......
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming.... WOW!!! What a Ride!
Have I ever mentioned my HD rotozip story..:>) I borrowed that rotozip from slim shadey and that started the whole thing off.....:>) teach me to borrow tools
Darkworksite4:
El americano pasado hacia fuera ase la bandera
my motto is "i'm sorry, i dont lend tools. but what i will do is lend you the money to buy it ". as pompous as it sounds it usually drives home several points....... slainte' bear
I think the wife has been volunteering you a little more then she should. Your in a tough spot now because they know your a soft touch. You might try working them when they come over. When they call and want to use your saw come up with something like. "I'm glad you called I'm digging in a pond or pool and need help." If they bite have them hand dig for an hour or so. The next guy can fill in the hole.
Who Dares Wins.
"I think the wife has been volunteering you a little more then she should."
Gunner,
She once "loaned me" to a close girlfriend who needed a "male companion" for a dinner party with the top brass at a Fortune 500 company. Talk about having to be evasive. Geez.
Jon
loaned to hot g/f of hers hunh?
you got the right kind of problems buddy
Neil
Easy.........
It's broken, sorry.
I left it on the job, sorry.
I lost the keys to my shop/truck, you haven't seen them have you?
I lent that to someone else, sorry.
My dog at it.
I need that today, sorry.
Eric
btw, I'm done pickin on Bob.
Loan them or don't, but don't lie about it as firebird suggests. I like the suggestion of explaining that you make your living with the tools and I don't loan tools. That's what I tell them. You might say "I can help you cut that piece" , then say to the dentist, for instance, "I have a problem with this tooth" or the computer nerd "I need some help...". etc. I believe most people will return the favor, some just have to be reminded. If they don't then they get a resounding NO next time.
"A contented man enjoys the scenery of a detour"
Gee TK...........my tongue was firmly planted in my cheek........couldn't ya see it??
That was supposed to be funny.
Eric
Sorry about the misunderstanding
How would you/do you handle loaning tools?
Depend actually.
I think some people kinda know better than to ask, although if they did I might consider it.
If they were good people and I know that lending the item would help them out I wouldn't mind.
Reciprocity would be nice as well.
A friend of mine is a wood worker. asks once ina while to borrow my wet saw or tile tools. He's usually there when I need a 12 foot piece of some od moulding or something.
Jon's got a problem. My answers are white lies, but they would be effective.
Like someone else said; "I'm using it currently, sorry".
Eric
For me, it kind of depends on the tool too. It's not too big of a deal to loan out or borrow a compressor, jack hammer, pry bar, wrench... the stuff that is simple to use and hard to damage. I've never had to ask someone to repair items like that I have loaned out but I wouldn't hesitate to bring it to their attention if it came back damaged.
On the other hand I would never think of asking to borrowing someone's HVLP sprayer or similarly touchy equipment that needs a bit of experience and care to run and maintain properly and I don't loan those type of tools out myself. Also, power saws and many other tools of the trade are dangerous in less experienced hands and they tend to be expensive to repair if they just pick the wrong moment to go south while they are out of my care.
I hate the idea of loaning a tool like that to someone, having it go out on them while they are using it and having them foot the bill for it's repair or leave a twinge of resentment if they don't.
If asked, I usually share the story of a personal lesson learned the hard way. I borrowed a hammer drill from a friend last year before I bought my Hilti rotory hammer. The collar where the auxilary handle screwed into the side of it was aluminum and the threads were worn. The threads stripped the rest of the way out while I was using it. The part had to be special ordered and the entire drill dissasembled to repair it at significant expense. I took it back to him fully repaired, gave him the busted part and reciept and told him if he ever had any trouble with the repair I would take care of it. Then I went out and got the tools I needed to do the rest of the work. That story usually makes it pretty clear why I hesitate to loan tools to a friend and what I expect from them if I do.
I'm usually quick with an offer to bring power tools with me if I can find the time to help or I explain the above scenario and recommend a couple of reasonable rental places in town. I've never had anyone resent me for it.
Kevin Halliburton
"The Greek comic poets, also, divided their plays into parts by introducing a choral song, ... they relived the actor's speeches by such intermissions." Vitruvious, (Book V)
>> The damage could be considerable ...
Is that true? I always thought manual transmissions were designed to be pretty much bullet proof, precisely because so many people don't know how to drive them. I'll admit I don't hang out with a sports car crowd, but I never heard of anybody having transmission problems that they attributed to gear grinding. Clutch problems yes, but not tranny problems.
Musta been a trans in a Ford product...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming.... WOW!!! What a Ride!
Jon,
Just say sure ya can use my table saw..here's the drill (ok a pun) I COME WITH IT..@ 100.00$ an hr. one hr. miniumum
Need my air nailer? I come with it, 100.00 an hr.
I had to resort to that myself, like I was the only guy in western NC that had a hammerdrill..seemed like everyone needed it at the same time
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
Tact works,
Gee I'd love to but I'm gonna need it myself, When I finish I'll call you, (and forget to call)
I tell them their are three things I don't loan out, my truck, my tools and my wife. Not neccessarily in that order.
mike
I don't loan out tools... with very few exceptions. I also have quite a few friends that want to use my table saws, bandsaw, etc. Considering how dangerous these tools can be even for the experienced user... I always just offer to cut it for them. Better safe than sorry. If my neighbor's kid cuts off his thumb on my bandsaw... I'm SURE I would get sued... Just something to think about.
Jon, post this in the shop.
The two things dearest in life,
Are the tools of the trade
And the darling wife.
Don't ask to borrow my tools,
And I won't ask to borrow your wife.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
"she's good at getting ahead playing real life politics."
If she's that good, I am sure SHE doesn't do favors for many people that can't ever help her get ahead. You should be afforded the same concideration. Maybe she should screen the people she offers you or your tools to.
A dentist friend of a girlfriend asked too borrow my tile saw to tile his bathroom. He made a comment that the rental cost of a saw would amount to almost what the saw cost since he could only use it nights or on the weekend. (That was the first red flag.) He then asked what saw I had. He knew his saws. (That was the second red flag.) I hinted that maybe we could do some sort of barter. I needed some dental work done. I even alluded to the barter being for doing the whole tile job, and if he wanted to be involved we could do it together. Well he had no problem coming flat out that he doesn't barter for denistry. (No more red flags needed.) Made me think. Bottom line was this guy also had no problem asking for a freebie. Therefore I had no problem saying "No."
BTW, at a BBQ later that summer he told me he found somone to donate a tile saw, model that he would have bought if he were in the biz, and then complained that "They are all a peice of crap because it stopped cutting straight half way through the job. Glad I didn't buy one. They don't seem to last."
With new "friends" you need to establish the guide lines prior to lending and then hope there is follow through. Old friends are pretty well defined and you already know who to say yes and no to.
The tools of any trade could be traded but should never be lent for free. Your tools are how you put food on your table and roof over your head. Don't ever let anyone marginalize that.
F.
Frankie,
Was re-reading this thread. Your post to me was intriguing. Just a few cut/pastes.
"she's good at getting ahead playing real life politics."
"If she's that good, I am sure SHE doesn't do favors for many people that can't ever help her get ahead."
In real life politics one is never certain of who will help you get ahead, just often those that can't.
"With new "friends" you need to establish the guide lines prior to lending and..."
Often lending a helping hand (or tool) is how a new relationship gets started. At our age, we're not in HS or college anymore, where chasing after females, and participating sports, and stuff like that was common ground. Now it's building decks, rec-rooms, or even getting a lawnmower to work right, etc.
Jon
The solution that a co-worker related to me, and so far it seems to work pretty well, is that loaning out the use of a given tool once isn't a big deal. But if they come back wanting it for a second job, the answer is 'No, you obviously need one of your own. I'd recommend buying one so you have it whenever you need it.'
Works so far. Helps out the one-timers, discourages the repeat offenders.
Monte
Milanuk
I work with a guy named Randy, he has that very same policy, we work in a cabinet shop and a few of the coworkers dont want to buy anything, think it should all be provided for them, they are always comming around wanting to use something.
Randy will let them barrow anything once, when they come around for it the next time he hits them with, "looks like its a tool that you are going to be needing, so you better go get one." Seems to work for him well.
Doug
Jon
Just say NO!~!!
I let my electrician use my saw zall here last week and he couldn't get the blade out.
He started smahing the blade with his hammer and craked the part that houses the blade....grrrr. Its now in the garbage.
I lent out my belt sander and got it back with......ahhhhhh forget it.
I'd NEVER lend out my tools ever again!
Be sayin' that before
andy
The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
This is always tough.
I have some good and trusted friends, and never hesitate to loan stuff out -- but it is always with the understanding they must return it the next day, and if it breaks, they fix it.
But I live in a close knit community, and therefore have a lot of "neighbor friends" who know about my tool inventory. So for the 3 most requested tools, I actually went out and bought a crappy drill and circular saw, and I kept the old recipro saw when I upgraded. This is the stuff that goes out on loan.
None of the shop equipment is ever used unless I am there, and then only with a friend in the "good and trusted" category. With all the rest, I will offer to do it myself for a very minimal charge.
I do, however, have a great reciprocal arrangement with a contractor friend. I let him use my shop occasionally, and in return he lends me equipment that I use just once and a while --e.g. tile saw, sheetrock jack, etc. This has been a win-win arrangement on both sides.
dont do it,
one tools will get trashed
AND TWO (acording to my attorney)
you lend a tool without proper training on use and you are liable if the joker splits his thumb using your 25 oz framer
of course it might not be that bad becasue of course you can prove that you did train them and you have kept up on proper maintance of the tool
In the real world , it is a tough call, I have lent tools, and I want to be a good guy.
theres this guy at work who was getting married so the usual collecction was taken but this yahoo told us what he wanted..a steam cleaner for the rug in his house. he even told us which model he wanted. So we all pitched in. Well about 3 onths later I asked him if I could borrow it. He said "My BIL borrowed it" so after a while I asked him again he said " My BIL broke it. Ya know sears rents them pretty cheap"
A real classic this guy.
Darkworksite4:
El americano pasado hacia fuera ase la bandera
Here's another angle:
It's been shown by studies of human behavior at certain universities that the "personal touch" gets the best results. (And, no, I'm not going to go into how to verify this info or where to find documentation of it... If any of you are that curious about it, either try it yourself over a period of time or spend yhour time on Google)
Jon, Try this: Touch them on the shoulder or arm, look them right in the eye, and say something like this, "This is a tough situation for me. I make my living with these tools. I may need it, without knowing so in advance. You could unitentionally damage it. I'm in business, so there's some sort of bizarre liability issue. Please don't ask, OK?" Say that with sincerity, but only if you feel it's true for you.
That said, I have one or two friends who I'd loan anything to. But they know what they are doing and I know they know what they are doing.
You're unique! Just like everyone else! Scott Adams
a much easier way is break it first, and loan it to em..you know, cut the wide prong off the cord end...if it's a router, take off the collet nut..always save those dead drill batts. for just this situ. "sure, Chuckie here's a drill and Oh, don't forget the spare battery.." ..
Chainsaw? snap the contact off the end of the sparkplug..
where there's a will, there's a relative
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
That said, I have one or two friends who I'd loan anything to. But they know what they are doing and I know they know what they are doing.
I thought IMERC already had everything, except a Cat 988. <g>PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
All.
Good responses, and too many to post back to individually. Besides, I was just venting. It's interesting that people who use/work with tools for a living really have a deep appreciation for their value. The tools I do loan out are not my work tools, those stay at work, and despite the fact that we borrow each others at work all the time, it rarely is an issue or causes a problem.
Just it is frustrating at home to spend an hour looking for something, only to realize you loaned it out for a few days to so and so, and three months later (my belt sander comes to mind), they STILL HAVEN'T RETURNED IT, or they keep borrowing something over and over and over. Geez, if you need it that much, buy one.
Geez, I just remember, two years ago I loaned the FIL an air compressor (2HP 220V 13CFM 30 gallon I think) for a brad nailer he borrowed from another relative to put up some mouldings. Guess where it still is (hint: not here).
Jon
Lent my son my truck AND ALL of my tools..........
Made $250.00 in 5hrs, while I sat home with nothing to do today.........he wouldn't even take me as a helper!!!!!!!
Bastaid.......gotta love him though, he's my boy!
Eric
Well said.
Those few friends that have free access know how I am about taking care of stuff, and respect that.
I had to call an aquantance recently and ask for a couple of staplers back that I volunteered when he told me he was helping his FIL build a shed. Dang, I resent having to do that!
He did return them next day...PJ
Whatever you can do or dream you can,
Begin it
Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. Goethe
Although he did want to play with the skid steer I had rented!
You bring home a Cat 988, or something similar, and he'll be over to play for sure.
Shoot, he even wanted to venture into our swampy climate for that chance. Well, probably he wasn't thinking summer.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
This is gonna be a D model with a 12 yard bucket isn't it???
So where ya gonna leave it and will there be any Broncos near by???
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming.... WOW!!! What a Ride!
Ya.... but it was yur project we played on...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming....
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Don't even go there with me............
I'll remain the stingy old fart rather than loan my tools to anyone anymore..
New Honda Pressure washer, Wifes sisters husband wants to clean his deck.
You don't use a pressure washer on a deck, plus it is too early to clean it (April)
Loan it reluctantly and sure enough, he blew the motor. (rod through block)
I'm not saying this could not have happened to me, but now I have to pay half of the motor replacement, and now he feels half the pressure washer now belongs to him.
Every April for four years I let him use it but now, it is always being used by my company.........
Don't borrow tools, it's rude, and you are too cheap to rent it.............
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Edited 6/17/2004 3:59 pm ET by Pro-Dek
"Don't even go there with me............
Don't borrow tools, it's rude, and you are too cheap to rent it............."
Pro-Dek,
Your post about your PW hit home. My wife informed me last night that we're do'in brunch this Saturday with the couple who borrowed my PW 3 times last Summer. Forget a question of whetheror not he ask's, it's even money on free delivery and pick-up. This time I giving it to him the way he gave it back,....DRY!!!!
Jon
Edited 6/17/2004 9:55 am ET by WorkshopJon
Jon, I forgot to mention it always left full of gas to eliminate any condensation in the tank, but he always returned it empty.
I now have a rental rate chart, and just tell them how much it will cost to go and rent it, but all my tools are in use right now........................
Don't Loan Tools!
My own kids want to use my tools to make money for someone else and I now tell them "don't even go there"................................
"My tools are my livelihood" "Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
I like yur attitude....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming.... WOW!!! What a Ride!
I don't like to borrow a tool even when it's offered.
You know sure as snot that the second you go to use a borrowed tool you are the one it is going to quit on. The part has worn right to the point and whoever it is that turns that tool on for that one time it's going to break.
And if you are the one holding that tool when it goes then you are the one accountable for it and you are the one that spends the bucks fixing or replacing. Money that could go toward owning your own instead.
Loaning them out? Ya, to realible good friends who wouldn't think of asking to borrow but when I see the need, ya.
Yeah GRRRRRRR.
The other day this guy( somewhat of a friend) asks to borrow 3 pumpjacks.So without really thinking i say ok.I was thinknig he "really" needed them to side his girlfriends house.
Now this is where it gets a little sticky. His girlfriend is an longtime friend of mine(about 26 years).about three years ago she comes to me asking if i could build here house and when? I say sure in about 2003 or 2004. But you need to get some plans and figure out what you want. Then give the plans so i can give you a price. She says sounds great.
So last year another long time friend asked to build her a house,she gave me the plans,i gave her a price and we signed a contract, pretty typical right? Well this house was 1200 sq ft and a lot of custome work,i.e , we did almost everything built all interior doors all cabs and vans and tiled bath floor and 500 sq ft living area with saltillo tiles this stuff takes time and money.
Well when my first frien found out how much i charged my second friend($180,000.00) my first friend that i was too expensive without even giving me a looksee at her plans to give a price. looks a little lower end now that its built.
any way back to the pumpjacks. i ride by this guys job and he has pumpjacks surrounding the whole house and i am only to assume he has borrowed almost all as 3 sets are mine. so i pull in kinda pissed because this is the house where i was to "expensive" and ask the guy why he needed my pjs and he said wanted to surround the house and he had another job he needed more pjs on.
I got pissed and said ok from today on i will rent these to you at $ 2.00 a day per set so thats six dollars a day. and he will proibably keep them a month or two. so i'm gonna send him a bill after month 1 and see if he pays it. that bill will be $180.00 and thats about the cost of three pjs.
OH yeah this guy also asked me if would come cut his %^&*## rafters for him because he couldnt figure it out.
sheeeeeeeeeeesh gd amateurs
just another day in paradise
G.E. Ely Construction
Ocracoke NC
"just another day in paradise"
did you mean 'parasites'?
m