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What other countries? Only the best corruption is above the table in the U.S.
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Lawrence
I too worked in the Toronto area with the same deck post inspectors.Also came the engineer,architect,non payment problems.Now picture this.I moved to a place that for 4 years, I have never seen an inspector,never talked to an architect and never seen a drawing from an engineer.Two of us can build 2000sq.ft in 3 months start to finish.And you know what,it sucks.The drawings are on old napkins and the detail is non existant.Looking for middle ground. Andrew
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Middle Ground is in Barrie. Do proper drawings with applicable details, get your plan in a week...along with helpful inspectors that give you leads as well. The only problem is that there are so many carpenters in the area they charge"barely enough to cover the cost of materials", on the average. Tight competition.
I called Ajax, couldn't speak to a human so I spoke to the machine, found email address, left message there.
I had worded it so that they had to give me a logical response back. Informing that sonotube footings will cause an uneven deck when installed in clay and it will void my 5 year warranty, and asking for clarification since I couldn't read the chart they had sent me(joist sizes, beam and footing sizes), all factors included 2x3", ya right.
I worked away all day, no response.
At about 5 I get a phone call. Believe it or not Gary Easton of the Ajax Building Department
was smart enough to cover his and everyone elses A__es, by keeping his response off the record, (Was I recording, Was I not recording). I won't say, did I mention most of my clients are in the legal profession. The guy didn't have anything to say! He Said "I don't know, I don't care, and besides we don't make the rules, OBC does, and I'm not paid to think....yada yada yada, and you haven't paid for a permit and I have 25 decks to do and don't have a brain anyway, and I don't have to give you any information etc etc.
I ask how long it takes to get a permit for a deck. He says it takes about 2 weeks! What does about mean, 3, 5, I have to tell the client. YES, two to three weeks, it has to go through the engineering department, zoning, drainage, then to the building inspector and has to meet local and OBC standards. I'm going to attempt to find out what they are today. All over a deck? This is a joke.
*I'm surprised the homeowners aren't up in arms over this. In America, you can't deny a homeowner his deck! Just as we ignore deficit increases, but go berserk over cable and ATM rates.Good luck, Lawrence. Sometimes you can beat city hall. But it makes our dept. sound pretty mellow.
*I thought you Canuuks (sp) loved your govt. Isn't that why it's such a mess up North? How do you get 25 footings in 500 sf? Unless you are using 2x4's for joists, this seems impossible. I would build to code always, to cover myself, but we call it bootlegging and that is all I'm going to say, other than I quit a month ago because it really was becoming too much BS for me to deal with. For me, it was the right move.
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It is certainly ironic that we discuss deck footings over the last week. I booked a deck in a small town near Toronto. As it turns out it's resident building inspectors have discovered that by upping the requirements for residential decks they can create actual job security!
Think about it. The more regulations however rediculous the safer their job is. True but rediculous. They are treating decks as additions. The same people who tell us re bar isn't required in residential footings are now telling us that decks shall from this day forward be capable of carrying 2x6 walls and a flat roof with snow load. Rails shall be 4' in height and footings shall be no less than 18" wide at the base and 12" sonotube, no less, and furthermore shall be no less than 4'-6" in depth in an area that hasn't seen more than 3' of frost in 30 odd years. Why so deep, because sonotubes don't work in clay! I've said it before, I'll say it again. To the building department in Ajax Ontario, get your heads out of your a__es!
Think about it folks, 500sq' deck, 25 footings by my specifications. 5 meters of concrete as a base for a deck?
I've already taken the autocad course so that I could do their architectural drawings they require to build deck, Please guys you tell me, if I'm wrong.
I am understanding why architects have a hard time building anything different...The building dept seems to be inept.
*Hey Lawrence - Is it possible that they are reacting to the reality of what is a deck today could be an extra bedroom next year? And since decks are often at the side of the house, Joe homeowner just puts on a flat or nearly flat roof because he doesn't know how to tie into existing roof as you or I would? The reason I ask this is because I looked at such a house this morning. They might even have been sued, and had to institute these new standards to protect themselves. - yb
*Is that actually what drives the building dept? Litigation. Mabee my idea's not that far from the correct route. Sue them for the extra concrete and time etc...above and beyond the norm. Only problem is I've cooled off already. Better still mock up 20 or 30 letters of intent to sue from various fictional contractors, file the papers and have them delivered? It may get the point across. I did get to thinking that mabee this whole set of problems today may lead to more profitable jobs tomorrow. Once the riff raff is driven out of the business there will be more work around for we edgewcated carpunters,? I think I'm losing it...Is this how you know you need medication? Any unique Ideas or insights would be muchly appreciated. I've dealt with worse, we will get through it.I'm just glad I don't live there.
*"Better still mock up 20 or 30 letters of intent to sue from various fictional contractors, file the papers and have them delivered? It may get the point across."This doesn't sound like a very good idea. More likely to get you in trouble than anything else.Since you do not live in the town in question, given the requirements, you need to price the job accordingly and explain to the surprised homeowner why. I would think a resident would have more clout fighting city hall (especially if they get some neighbors).Rich Beckman
*Good point Rich,It just seems we don't have a voice in the process at all. This Canadian system seems to drive itself.
*Hi Lawrence,A local building inspection office making things complicated as a make work project, now there's a novel idea. The easiest way to raise taxes in a municipality is to raise the value of the property. What a scam. Someone wiser than I once said, "if we did business like the government does, we'd be put in jail for it."I've got my hand's full with local corruption out here, Lawrence, you'll have to kick ass out there on your own. Getting local political thieves fired is a hobby of mine and the only way they can get away with it, is when you sit on your thumbs and let them get away with it.Go get them tiger,Gabe
*Well, you have democracy in Canada (er, right?) and complaining homeowners are the way to fix things. these requirements are idiotic -- if an addition is later approved the footings will have to be reexamined, but that's a whole 'nother permit process. i don't see any ground for a lawsuit, they could require steel if they wanted to -- the voters are the check on the system. I'll bet these requirements don't last long.
*So, the next step will be to require footings, foundations and framing in each and every structure sufficient to carry the maximum number or stories allowed in zone regardless of the number of stories intended at the time of permitting, construction, inspection, approval and occupancy. And that does not constitute pre-approval or permitting for any such eventual expansion.Doesn't hold water.
*Democracy in Canada? Where'd you hear that. The system is run by a guy that can't even say Canada. Who came up with the loonie, and I just can't see anyone voting for a 70% tax rate. Democracy, rediculous!Once they are in they do as they damned well please.They pander to the press for the 3 current issues, they all say more or less the same thing and the prettiest one or the guy who seems honest(the best actor), gets in. Take Ontario today. I resent even having to vote. A complete waste of my time, 3 guys I wouldn't even consider doing work for...not even if they ask nice!Yet, "the people", trust them with the future of our province. At least in other countries the corruption is kept above the table...so that everyone can see the game you are playing.
*What other countries? Only the best corruption is above the table in the U.S.