Hi, I’m doing some repairs to a log home that was built 9 years ago. In the back of the home, the first course of logs is badly rotted (approxomately 1/4 of the way through a 12-14″ diameter log). I’m thinking of removing the rotting portion of the log and treating the remaining wood with CPES epoxy. I will then either use their Fill-It brand epoxy to restore the look of the log, or use a rounded log cap (or piece of log siding) to cover the log. Has anyone used CPES before? Did it work? Does anyone have a different solution? Any feedback you could give me would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you.
Replies
This is a common problem with older log homes due to the bottom log being set too close to grade, or set in a trough on a rubble foundation so it won't drain properly. I am surprised to hear that a 9-year-old home would be built this poorly. You may have some recourse against the builder even now; check the 'hidden vice' laws in your jurisdiction or consult an attorney.
As to fixing the physical problem: There are a number of epoxy-based products on the market for this kind of application; I have used a type of CPES made by Abatron ('Liquid Wood') and found it effective, but long to dry. If using Abatron's wood replacement putty ('WoodEpox'), this isn't too important as the putty can be put over still-tacky wood which has been treated with the penetrating epoxy. Make sure you wear nitrile gloves while working with these products. Once the putty dries, you can shape it like you would ordinary wood.
The theory behind CPES is that it penetrates the rotted portion of the wood and kills all remaining mould spores which could continue to eat away at the timber even after a repair has been made. How deeply it actually does penetrate depends on a number of factors, and of course it isn't particularly easy to determine how deep the rot goes without opening up the timber to see. Thus, you should know that there are other ways to do this, depending on access to the rotted timber.
If possible, I prefer to grind away all rotted wood, and replace it.
A small chain-saw wheel on an angle-grinder is useful for the removal process. For massive timbers, where the rot goes too deep to reach with the wheel, the tip of a small chainsaw may be used, so long as you are careful about kickback. (If much material has to be removed, you may have to support the building temporarily with jacks or shims.)
Depending on the extent of the rot and the shape of the timber, replacement can be done with hydraulic concrete, epoxy putty, or new timber scarfed/patched in place with screws or lags and structural adhesive such as PL Premium. Portlant-cement-based hydraulic concrete has the advantage of being alkaline, and any few remaining mould spores you might have missed won't live long in an alkaline environment. It also hardens very quickly (within minutes; don't mix too much at a time).
There are also boron-based (disodium octaborate or 'boric acid') rods designed for insertion into rotting timbers. This type of rod slowly dissolves whenever the timber's moisture content becomes too high, killing mould and rot as it does. When the wood dries and moisture levels drop below approximately 25%, the preservative becomes dormant. It will reactivate should decay-conducive conditions reoccur.
These rods are commonly used in major restoration projects of older log houses, as well as preventatively in new ones. The plugs covering the rods should be removed and the rods checked visually every 3 to 5 years to see if they need to be replaced.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not brought
low by this? For thine evil pales before that which
foolish men call Justice....
Dude..c'mon down!
You trying for a magazine hit? LOL
Nuthin, nuthin, is gonna help this..until the source is found..I'd take a chain saw and start dissecting..find the bugs and Nirvana is soon to follow.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
You gonna play that thing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Ln-SpJsy0
Thanks for the responses. Here is a bit more information: The logs are red pine. The log home is located in Upper Michigan. There are no (visible) signs of bug infestation--carpenter ants/termites aren't a problem in the U.P. My company built this home in exact accordance with the architect's plans--we didn't however, set the logs. The rotted area (approx 35' of semi-rotted logs) occurs along the perimeter of a cedar deck that was--according to specifications--installed directly underneath the first log, which sits approxomately 3' off of the ground. There is a roof valley which empties rain/snow upon the deck--rain gutters aren't an option; the massive amount of snow that slides off of the roof would rip them down every winter. It is located on the north side of the house and never receives direct sunlight.
Hope this helps. I plan to post some pictures on this site sometime tomorrow. Does anyone else have experience using CPES? It's very expensive, so I've been doing some research--it sounds like it's the gold standard of log (and boat) restoration. Again, all responses are sincerely appreciated.
Wow, that sounds like an absolute recipe for rot.
IMO: I'd say gutter and snow guards while you're there(or if it's a crazy-steep roof, some method of getting rid of all the snow piling up on the deck). If not, you're just treating the symptom and not the cause...over, and over, and over.
Sounds like a case of built in obsolescence, bad archy, bad.
If you can't divert the water away, epoxy is just gonna cover up the continuing havoc. I'd strongly suggest either a pent roof addition or a gallon of gas and a good insurance policy.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
You gonna play that thing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Ln-SpJsy0
indierox
Let me assure you there are optional gutters that will help prevent the problem from reoccuring once you fix it. No! you cannot use typical gutters and expect them to withstand the heavy snow and ice we get. however there are gutters made capable of dealing with such things without damage..
I bought a system from classic gutters (they advertize in this magazine and they are in your area) whereby I can hang my fat 300# on anyplace and the gutters won't pull loose. Expensive but I'm willing to bet signiificantly cheaper than your anticipated repairs..
Interesting, I didn't think gutters were an option. Do you know the name or website of the manufactuer?
indierox
wwwclassicgutters.com 269-665-2700 (Kalamazoo Mich)
nice people, helpful, and they remember details I didn't
If you'd like to see my gutters go to 94041.7
Edited 7/24/2008 10:27 am ET by frenchy
You trying for a magazine hit? LOL
ROAR. Nah, the eds always rewrite those blurbs anyway.
Gotta go get my neck cracked; back later but yer right, the cause always has to be fixed first. From the subsequent posts, sounds like the archy's at fault anyway. Real good example of DuhDezine....
Frenchy's idea ain't bad, but there's a better one: seasonal gutters that snap off for the winter and back on for the summer. His 300# ain't nothin' to the weight of a roof-full of wet white stuff. We're talking multiple tons, here.
Plus eaves ice fences if it's a metal roof.
Gotta run; later.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Can you tell this guy where to go?
Not really. My log exp. is of the 150 YRS.+ area, I can't imagine a 9 Y.O. home with such damage unless there was a MAJOR FU, somewhere..in which case , I need pics. to determine species, type of damage, possible cause of damage, Et.Al.
Something is amiss..in no way should any 9 YO home have serious decay issues, unless someone dropped the ball in fabrication or execution. Even the "D" style log kits are white pine or cypress, sometimes poplar..and when set atop a foundation, are relatively removed from decay causing water..unless of course the rain splatter and a north side exp. allows water to stay wet..sounds to me like neglect, in which case the OP don't need a fix, he needs education to avoid a fix.
Any applied Abatron or the like is not gonna quell the issue of WHY the log (S) rotted, unless it was a punky sill/plate log that ws installed from the git go..which is a likely thing, given the state of "Kit" homes, and the builders of them.
Thanks for thinking of me tho', but this guy has issues that need fluffing out a lot more..it just sounds too suspect for me to guess any further without a clue of location and species..and sounds very suspect that there was/is no mention of bugs..normally, when the logs head south, there is at least one infestation of something..PPbeetles, C.Ants, or Termites. I have seen big MoFo slug like critters in hardwoods, that would make your jaw drop..Oak mainly..and I get the feeling the OP ain't dealing w/that.
I await for the straight and skinny.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
You gonna play that thing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Ln-SpJsy0
What kind of wood do you suspect it is? In Mi. I could imagine a Pine "D" log..local builder or rep of a National Dist?
Got pics?
Got water dumping on the ground under a valley?
Got Bugs?
Got bug FRASS?
North side?
Elevation above grade?
Tell me that stuff, we'll take it from there.
I am in a log structure of more yrs. than you and I combined, just south of you..but my place is/was a basket case, and it's like comparing a broke down Mecerdes ( yours) to a Model T ( mine)..but the parameters must still be met to insure a sound structure..are we looking at the wheels? Or the wheel bearings/axles?
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
You gonna play that thing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Ln-SpJsy0