I have been asked by a client to make a log mantle for his fire place. I will be using a piece of red cedar which will basically be about a 12-14″ diameter log cut in half as they want to retain the rounded look of the log. I am wondering about how to best preserve the piece after completing it, do I need to do anything special to dry the log before working it etc. This is a first for me so any help or ideas would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks for yout time.
Karl in Portland
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I'd mill it to 5/4 or 6/4 or whatever size you need. You can air-dry it, but generally that takes a year per inch of thickness. I'd take it to a commercial kiln and let them dry it. Otherwise, that wood will move all over the place in the months to come.
yo..he wants to rip a 12'' -14'' log in half..not 5/4 or 6/4..
maybe worried about checking..
maybe he should consider P.E.G...like the lathe gurus use..
or wait till it has had enough down time to dry out..sufficiently for an interior application..
just clearing up any confusion..ahead of time.
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Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
Yep, you're right, PEG is another option to prevent checking. Guess I didn't envision him using a half log for a mantle, but there ya go...
Notchman is on the right track; with a log of this size I'd cut a pie shaped wedge in the nonvisible area of the back or underneath to relieve checking.
Edited 4/20/2004 8:52 am ET by JACKPLANE
Please!...don't just "glue' the log to the wall, it NEEDS to have have some visible means of support.
Levitation is cool but unreal. Typically here in Vancouver/Whistler and other loggie area in North America, there would be two horizontal log supports that stick out on the bottom and support the mantle.
If you're really good you scribe the mantle to the two supports.
Cheers,Phil.If it is to be.... 'twil be done by me.
ever use peg?...IIRC..it's akin to antifreeze...poly ethylene glycol or propyl ethylene..or some such formula..wonder anti freeze would work?
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Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
haven't used it. It is the same stuff though the concentration percentage may be different.
Polyethylene Glycol; A component of antifreeze and I used it once a number of years ago on some keel timbers for a sailboat I was building and it seemed to work. (Not scientific, I realize, but I was using some green white oak and soaked the cut end grain for about a week).
I still maintain, from more experience than I described in my previous post, that Western Red Cedar, even the 2nd growth stuff, doesn't check very heavily at all.
And, besides IMO, a few checks and knots, etc., in a log mantle just add richness and character.
When I have some time tonight, I'll try to put some pics together of some logs put up "pond dry" that have been in the dry and warm for several years.
Thanks for all the input on this, I have never worked with raw logs like this but....we'll see how it turns out! I am going to anchor the mantle with two horizontal pieces which will be anchored to wall framing and yes, I will scribe the mantle to contour the supports. One question I do have is, what is PEG? I have never heard of this before. Thanks again, once again this is a great place for a one man band like myself to get new info from best in the business!
Thanks
Karl
PEG is Polyethylene Glycol and, as mentioned, is a component of antifreeze, but is available as a wood treatment in a purer form through suppliers such as Woodcraft Supply et al.
I haven't kept myself schooled up on it but, if memory serves, it is a liquid with a paraffine-like substance in solution and replaces the water in wood cells so they're unable to collapse and shrink.
Some interesting thoughts about PEG and automotive antifreeze:
http://boatbuilding.com/content/rot.html
ever use peg?...IIRC..it's akin to antifreeze...poly ethylene glycol or propyl ethylene..or some such formula..wonder anti freeze would work?
Yup. We couldn't even afford moonshine way back when.
makes ya blind..don't do that
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Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
Some body into my thermos???Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming.... WOW!!! What a Ride!
ssssshhh...
I took a sip...whooo wheeee..
can't find my shoes...
oh wait...dems the roundy parts..nup,,dems are the ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZView Image
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
I work for an arcitect who loves that loggish mantle look. He especially likes eastern red cedar, good thing, cause that's what's grows around here. It's actually pretty stable wood. I've done a few that were put up the day after they were cut down. A little shrinking a little checking, but it's pretty much in keeping with a chunk of log hanging on the wall<G>
I chain saw them in half and then run them over a 12" jointer until I get a flat surface. Sometimes I tack a straight edge on the flat face, and either run the piece upside down thru the table saw or use a circular saw, so I can get a bit of a flat side on the back. Makes it easier to mount, but some folks just want the round look.
If you want to get the bark off (shreds of cedar bark will shed off for years), you can wire brush, chisle, drawknife, sand, whatever you want for the end look. Same with the finish. I like oil (Watco) cause it's easy and looks great, but I've also done them with Waterlox, polyurethane, and nothing, which looks nice on an old, long-downed weathered log.
To hang it, I epoxie a couple of 3/4" threaded rods into some available framing. There's some 5 min stuff that's mixes up thick, don't want runny. Tweak the rods till level (across and front to back) and let them set up. I use a drill guide to try and get straight holes in the log, then keep wallerin' until I can get it to sit right on the rods. Pack epoxie down the holes, slide on the log, tweak with some dead men, and let that all set up.
I think it looks great in certain style houses, and it shouldn't take you more than a couple of hours, I mean, it's just an old log, right? LOL Don't worry, we can fix that later!
Here's one that needed to be a little longer IMHO, but this is what they gave me<G> Don't worry, we can fix that later!
Western Red Cedar is an exceptionally stable wood. My own house is a log/timberframe hybrid. I used timber available on my own property and most of the logs were put up relatively green.
Results:
Doug fir; moderate checking.
Port Orford Cedar; pretty heavy checking, usually in one quadrant (controlled with saw kerfs and wedges in buried areas). Pacific Yew (from which my own mantle is a slabbed log), negligible checking.
Western Red Cedar; very little checking and what there is is so minor as to be insignificant.
I've been in this house for 5 years now and the creaks and pops and bangs have ceased. The Red Cedar posts, some of them put up the same week I felled and peeled them, look as solid as the day they were peeled.
Have fun! Pick a good log! Post pictures!
The key to minimizing checking is to relieve the stress of drying. One method I have used is to drill a series of 2 inch dia holes into the back stopping just short of the face. The holes need to be as close as you can get them without intersecting each other. In effect you are creating a honeycomb effect that lets the moisture escape out the back and also creat a void for the wood to shrink into without exploding out the face side. A customer brought me a $3000 birdseye log and wanted a mantel made, polished top and bottom with rough natural face edge. I lost some sleep over the process but did manage to pull it off with only a few minor checks on the face. The log took 65 holes and once the wood reached 8% moisture content (about 6 months) I soaked the whole piece in Watco natural oil for another month, let dry for 6 weeks then applied a lacquer top coat. It's been 10 years and it looks great. To sum it up it was a lot of work for a little money that produced a great looking mantel.
Sounds really exotic. Is there a particular pattern that you drill the holes?
Is there a particular pattern that you drill the holes?
Not really, other than make it look like a professional did it using a drill press as opposed to the buckshot barney method of here there and everywhere. I laid the holes out in two rows so I had about a 1/2 inch web between the holes at the narrowest point.
The PEG method has merrit however your finishing options are limited due to the waxy composition of the chemical. Not many finishes stick to it, I considered it as the last option since it's not really quick either. From what I recall a log of that size would have to sit in the temperature controlled vat for the better part of a year, may as well just dry the thing and be done with it.