I have been asked by a client to purchase new toilets for her home. The current toilets are subject to clogs several times a week even with only one person in the house. Any suggestions on which brand of gravity toilet is clog resistant in the $200-$400 range? I’ve have looked in the consumer reports but have more faith in the opinion of “real – world” installers. Thanks for your help.
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I've had good luck with Toto gmax.
I have this sinking feeling that there's an underlying plumbing problem that is causing the frequent clogging.
The awful thing is that beauty is mysterious as well as terrible. God and the devil are fighting there, and the battlefield is the heart of man.
- Fyodor Dostoyevski
"I have this sinking feeling that there's an underlying plumbing problem that is causing the frequent clogging...."
The waste lines are 3" cast. Approximately 40 years old. I have had the waste lines augered for the client a year ago and they were free of debris / tree roots etc. I had the vent stack checked as well and it was clear. The existing toilets are American Standards (approximately 2 years old) Could quilted toilet paper be causing the trouble?
You could use a sewer camera to look for odd problems, but if all toilets have the same issue, the problem is likely the HO. I would question them carefully about ANYTHING they dump in the toilets. Tampons, paper, garbage, ashtrays full of butts, you name it. Some people just assume the toilet is a giant sinkhole conected to an infinite diameter pipe where they can dump anything that fits in the bowl itself. I've seen it all. If they have kids, ask them to pay close attention to what the kids may be dumping in the toilet also. We've seen play dough and toys in sewer pipes.
DG/Builder
"Could quilted toilet paper be causing the trouble?"Depends how much she is using and what she is wrapping in it.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I mostly work in old houses and buildings and find it's best assume and explain the worst case senario up front i.e. "we can replace the stools, but, there may be and underlying plumbing problem that needs to be addressed". Even if the client insists that the easy fix is the right fix, best cya in writing lest, they forget <wink>
The awful thing is that beauty is mysterious as well as terrible. God and the devil are fighting there, and the battlefield is the heart of man.- Fyodor Dostoyevski
Outhouse.
jk.
bump.
Ya beat me to it!
Opened the door to one at a 'rest stop' in Wyoming that was piled up higher than the seat - even grossed me out, I think that one was 'clogged'.
Ah yes. People think outhouses are maintenance free. They forget that phrase 'Sh*tty end of the stick' refers to the tool used to 'tip the stack' on a regular basis and the importance of determining which is the 'working' end. A proper outhouse has the stick, typically a broom stick, drilled so it can hang on a nail. The other nicety that somehow got lost in time was the small barrel of quicklime that is, in a proper outhouse, kept in the corner with a wood or plastic scoop. After use a bit of lime was sprinkled in. Much like flushing.No outhouse can be considered complete without a proper stick, lime bucket, scoop and a couple of catalogs that are a few years old situated so they are convenient to reach while seated.An outhouse properly maintained by being tipped and limed is usually no more unpleasant to use than a well maintained Porta-Potty.
4Lorn -
Your discussion about outhouse maintenance reminds me of a story my grandmother told me in the early '50's.
She wrote to Sears & Roebuck and asked them to send her some of that newfangled toilet paper. They answered that she would need to order it thru one of their catalogs. She replied that if she had the catalog, she wouldn't need the toilet paper! - lol
couple of catalogs
My mother still comments occasionally that the months before the new phone books came out were the worst, as during those months the Sears catalog was the top of the stack.
Sears catalogs, or most any glossy catalog, takes a couple of years hanging in an outhouse, semi protected from the weather, to become usable. The old Sears copies were about a third white pages that were more like cheap newsprint. These were almost usable, if desperate, immediately and fairly good after only years weathering. Trick was to string the catalogs on a piece of wire or rope so the new ones were at one end and the soft aged ones at the other. Also helped to raid the neighbors outhouse for their properly aged editions.
You took the word right out of my mouth.That is also the shortest post I have ever read from you!truthfully, I suspect the house has a waste line problem or the resident has a personal problem.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
truthfully, I suspect the house has a waste line problem or the resident has a personal problem.
I don't know, I've seen a number of low flow toilets that had a hard enough time flushing water.
Manufacturers claim they're getting better, we'll see. jt8
"The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly, is to fill the world with fools." -- Herbert Spencer
OMG....is that ALL you're gonna say.....what day is it......:>)
I installed an american standard "williamsburg" toilet a little over a year ago in our main bathroom. I've only had to plunge it twice. And I believe that both times any toilet would have needed it regardless.
Hope this helps...Buic
Had a reuccuring clog problem a few years a go.
Would get the line rodded and it would be fine for a few weeks then backup city.
Finally got out the shovel and started digging.
A 2' chunk of rebar was in the backfill and managed to spear the pipe.
Toilet paper would slowly build up on the pipe and............
Rik
Before I got into the electrical game I was more a handyman. There was a toilet that was always backing up. It had been doing this for years. We would clear it only to see it all again every few weeks. Chasing another problem I found a pencil stub caught in the trap. Plungers, closet snakes and power rodders swung by plumbers and drain cleaners had all missed it. Once removed, had to lift the bowl, the problem disappeared.Sometimes it is the simple things.
Another vote for Toto. Google "Terry Love plumbing", lotta helpfull info at his site.
"Another vote for Toto. Google "Terry Love plumbing", lotta helpfull info at his site"
I contacted two plumbing supply houses today about Toto toilets. Both said they didn't carry the brand. Internet sites carry them buy has anyone ordered online with satisfaction? Some sites offered free shipping but I also have concerns about getting parts in the future. Any thoughts?
Toto.My son clogged everything anywhere. Here, the neighbors, etc, etc.Finally pulled and replaced two of our toilets with Totos. No more clogs.Replacement parts will be available online. No worries.
I've purchased them from a local plumber and also online ( a few years back) from a place called bathclick.com - not sure if they are still around. A LOT of packing material to get rid of with the online purchase!
Look around for Gerber brand. Generally carried by supply houses. The have a power flush model that isn't to pricey and works well. Their regular toilet works well too but in this situation I would opt for the power flush. We can get them for about $220. I have only had one call back on a Gerber in 5 years and none on the power flush units. At one time I read a report that listed it as the 4th best toilet in the nation. Toto was first and interestingly enough AS and Kohler were in the 20's at that time. That was 3-4 years ago. DanT
The Gerber is the one in my basement.
I got it for free. I installed it on the job, I got called back the next day cause it was leaking out from the base.
After pulling the toilet I noticed that casting seal was missing (silicone plug), I had another one in my truck so swapped it out.
Supply house gave me credit for the toilet & didn't want the defected one back.
So I fixed the plug & viola been in my basement for 6yrs now only clog was a large lego¯.
When I started in business I installed Kohlers and AS as I had grown up with them being the standard for in our area. This was a few years into the 1.6 gallon deal. I kept getting call backs on them. The local supply rep asked me to try Gerber and said it may not be a houshold name but asked me to read a report he had. After that we started using them and unless we get a definate request it is all we install.
I talked with the American Standard rep a year or so ago and he pointed out their new line will flush up to 21 golf balls. I asked him when the last time he had his hands in poop was. He said never. I pointed out to him that from a guy that has hands in it more than a few times I could tell him that golf balls and poop are hardly the same thing when you try to get them through a trap using only gravity and water. He shut up. I am sure that they have improved there product, we just don't have a reason to switch back. DanT
Well, having a family with a wide variety of poop - hard, soft, big and small... but always alot of it - my personal experience is that the AS Champion does well with sticky plastic masses.
OK, I'M totally grossed out now!Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
"...AS Champion does well with sticky plastic masses."What in God's name are you feeding your family?
Apparently my food sticks to more than just ribs! :PRebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
I second the Gerber as a good cost effective product. My supplier sells me the standard one for 68 with a Bemis seat/lid. I have never had a problem. I got two last month for the price of one of the Amer. Stds. the customer had picked. Trapways looked pretty much the same to me. At least they could be installed in the 10" RI that the Amer. Std. had wrongly led me to. Their bowl will go 10, 12,or 14 with appropriate tank..
Another vote for Gerber. Problem free and cheap. And refills very fast.
Final vote for TOTO. Gerber air okay, gravity not. Champion subject to problems if you have minerals. Toto sucks tennis balls. Three in two old (OLD!) houses -- no problems. Two Drakes, one Vespin (my choice -- so easy to clean) . Why mess around?
Heard this from a friend of mine awhile back:
P - F - P - F
Poop, Flush, Paper, Flush
Works good with 1.6 gal. toilets"Objects in mirror appear closer than they are."
Klakamp Construction, Findlay, Ohio
ROAR
that's a good one
Or you can just do like they told us to do when on a trip to Mexico--put your used TP in the waste basket! Yuck!
They do that up here also. The Mexicans will put their used TP in a waste basket if available or on the the floor..but it aint gonna get flushed. Worked on too many places and have owned places where this was done. A friend once said to me ,when I was lamenting about this problem,maybe they save it so they can use the other side.
It's a cultural thing when you come from a country with notoriously bad plumbing. Back when I worked in IT, I remember someone complaining about the just off the boat Russian programmers not flushing TP. As the story was related to me, the company had to install biohazard bins in the stalls to take care of the problem.
Actually, if you are used to wiping one way all your life... try UNlearning that.Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
The worst paper I have ever encountered was British Army issue, was like wax paper and had Government Property printed on every sheet. Used to go to meetings at Nuc. storage sites.
<<The worst paper I have ever encountered was British Army issue, was like wax paper >>We used to call that "John Wayne toilet paper" -- it's rough, it's tough, and it doesn't take any sh!t off of anyone.A king can stand people fighting but he can't last long if people start
thinking. -Will Rogers, humorist (1879-1935)
Re:"John Wayne toilet paper"That cracks me up. Best laugh I have had in some time. Thanks.
You cracked me up with sheety end of the stick routine<G>Not exactly sure why but most houses I've lived in for the past 35 years have had outhouses...jeeze, I had a girl friend who's grandmother had one with 'lecricity and indoor/outdoor carpet. Rented a place once with a cast concrete throne/cover combo.Mrs 'Snort's family is from Mississippi, she always thought they were called owl houses...Both my kids grew up in the Virginia mountains using one that I built, was wrapped in plastic...we called it the room with the view. Taught 'em how to play with matches by lighting a sheet of newspaper & chucking it in the hole to warm the seat on a frosty morn...those methane explosions are urban myths, ha. Place we bought here that has an outhouse, been here forever so it's grandfathered in, when the power goes out the other couple of families in the neighborhood use it, too.But dang, never had such a pile we had to tip it...all youse guys that think I'm full of it, take note...not sayin' we don't need a bunch of lime LOLI'm looking at some property right now with a nice two holer, hand made seats no less...I won't be picking up any sticks near that one<G>but I am thinking parade of homes, yeah. Hey, pocket doors can't come off the track if they're nailed open
Owl house, LOL - that's a hoot!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
whooo, me? Hey, pocket doors can't come off the track if they're nailed open
Also known as a "Courtesy Flush"!
We have Toto's and have had no clogs, installed a few others for family and they also have had no clogs.
Does anyone haver experience with the one piece Kohlers? Looking at a "San raphael" which comes in two versions. One is what they call "Power Lite" which I assume has a noisy power assisted flushing mechanism, the other uses a stadnadrd flusing mechanism. With a $250 premium for the power lite I wanted to go with the regular model, but haven't been able to find anything on how ell it flushes.
Thanks, Carlos
I think that's what were puting in on our condo job--- not sure I don't head that crew--- I'll ask that foreman on wed if those are what he is installing ---if so it's over 300 of them in one building I'm sure he will have an opinion
I'll get back to ya on this one.
Plumbill -- thanks, the model I'm interested in has the elongated bowl, but want to know how it works without the power assited flushing
Carlos
I see several people recommending Toto brand. Which models of Toto? jt8
"The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly, is to fill the world with fools." -- Herbert Spencer
Am I the only guy here who crossed the border into Canada and bought a "real" toilet?? My parents live in Detroit. One holiday weekend we got up early and crossed the border and brought back a high flush toilet. Best decision I've made.
Bombs away!!
LOL
Well I can't say officialy ( licensed plumber thing)
But I heard of a plumber named Bill who has a sister that lives in Canada & a dad that was a plumber & who was going to visit her one time & Bill had a really long flat run of pipe that 1.6 gallons wasn't pushin the crap down the pipe. So he called his dad to buy 2 toilets & bring them back with him. & it worked like a charm & the inspector didn't have a clue.
I live in the NYC metropolitan area. There are Toto dealers everywhere.
I just purchased the Toto Drake Gmax and have two more on order. Plumbers here love them.
Use less TP?????
LOL:)))
Sorry couldn't resist!!
Maybe a bidet instead to wash first. If my first suggestion was right.
Makes me think of my son, He feels he has to use a 1/4 of a roll at a sitting. The plunger was used many times when he lived here. LOL!!
Hope you find something as I still have one that has an offset flange and stops up if not careful. Could use a good solution other than cut into the slab.
MK
The American Standard Champion. No question. The family I married into clogged every toilet they met at my old home. My new house, where I installed 3 Champions = 0 plug ups. No only that, waste dissapears instantly. None of that circling around before it meanders down the hole. Not only that, but you get about two full power flushes from each tank. It comes standard with the 21" high long bowl, but you can get the 18" round as well.
As someone who spends some time "in the library", I gotta say this is the best toilet I've ever come across. After I installed one, I had to have it everywhere!
Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Doesn't the big slam noise when the "flush tower" clunks down after flushing bother you? I have a friend with these toilets in his house and you can hear somebody flush one three rooms away!
Must be something odd with his toilet. I just checked mine, the clunk is no louder than the water gurgle - both are quite low, and the water runs for a very short time.Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
First---- If it's just the toilet clogging, then it's not usually a problem in the drain line.
I have heard good things about toto by people in here & a couple plumbers I work with like them too.
I can't give a personal opinion on toto, cause I have only seen one in a showroom.
Kohler Cimmeron¯ is a good one I use it in my main bath, it has an extra larger flapper in it to let the 1.6 gallons out faster.
Gerber, Kohler, & American Standard make a pressure assist toilet that works awsome but there a bit noisy I have one in my basement, 1 clog in 6yrs thanks to a large lego block.
Have the owner start taking Metamucil!
I'm surprised at the number of responses that suggest the problem is either plumbing beyond the toilet, or too much toilet paper.
Even with new designs, the abilities of various toilet models to handle waste varies significantly, even when made by the same manufacturer.
The house I live in is just over two years old, with builder-grade Eljers installed. I'm lucky if they flush urine, yet other Eljer models perform decently.
Totos are good, but the new American Standard models are the best, bar none.
For your dining pleasure, here is the most comprehensive scientific testing of toilet models in North America you will ever find. I particularly enjoy the thought and care they went to in creating their "media". And can you imagine being lucky enough to have the job of compiling statistics on male & female deuces? Yarrrghh!
For the metric system challenged: 250 grams = 1/2 pound
Happy reading,
Tim Ruttan
Not that this is helpful, but.... When I first read the subject of the post, I thought the question was finding a "dog-resistant toilet" as the c and l in clog looked like a d. Now a dog-resistant toilet would be something to see. Leave the seat down for starters.
I must still be sleepy, Thought your post said"Looking for a dog resistant toilet" Maybe someone needs to invent one!
A friend went to Russia and said she never saw a plunger in the can once the whole trip. They seem to have figured out that to solve any plugging issues a simple oversized hole in the floor is the most reliable.
omaha:
The Gerber power flush works well, but my preference is for the Toto toilets. We have installed about 40 in the past few years, with no callbacks. Just had 2 different plumbing subs install the AS Champion toilet on 2 different renovations. The loud clunk was a minor nuisance to the HO compared with the fact that the damn things did not flush worth a plug nickel. Had to get the plumbers back out on 7 different occasions to try and adjust the mechanisms. Finally coerced (nicely) the HO into buying the Totos. They did not want the old AS's so I donated them to Habitat. Kind of a jerky thing to do, but I did not want to toss them into the garbage. I have found with any 1.6 gpf that if you hold down the flusher it will usually evacuate all of the debris. I really prefer to "buy American" but my clients comfort and satisfaction demands that we use the best products available, no matter where they come from.
Good Luck
>> I have found with any 1.6 gpf that if you hold down the flusher it will usually evacuate all of the debris. On a new Gerber I have, the flap closes before all the water has drained out of the tank. IIRC isn't there a float that can be installed on the chain so the flap doesn't close to early.I also have a AS with a Sloan power flush. It often doesn't shutoff and requires the proverbial handle jiggling.
Hey is your sloan flushmate an older one ---cause that used to be a big problem on early models.
Float on chain------ can't usually get the float low enough to make a difference-----
But you didn't hear this from me------ put a small party balloon in the hole in your flapper this will keep any water out & maintain maximum boyancy
Sloan powerflush is about 4 years old maybe.I don't follow about the party balloon, I don't think the flapper has a hole.(that doesn't sound very good <g>).
Here is a flapper upside down.
http://ts.smoothcorp.com/cj/cornerhardware/202674.jpg
The hole in the bottom holds air to keep flapper open during flush.
Curious - were those AS Champs the 18" round or 21" long bowls?
I'm very surprised to hear bad things about these. I have been nothing but happy with them!Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Paul
They were both the elongated version. I know with most crappers the round bowls flush differently than the elongated ones. Don't have experience with the round bowls on this particular toilet. I am willing to give them a chance, I like AS products and it is a good looking piece of china. maybe the next generation will be better.
sully
Here is something interesting:
The AS Champ that is normally in use (main bathroom) had the fill valve assembly replaced. I'm not sure why - I think it just didn't turn off, and not due to gunk keeping it open. AS sent me a replacement for it, and it looks like the same kind of you buy at a bigbox. Nothing special about it, but it was different from what was there. I wonder if that, or something I did to the flushing tower, removed the clunk noise?
One of the three we have does have a noticable clunk, now that I've checked them all. The one with the clunk is on the 2nd floor, while the two without are on the slab... mabey that has something to do with it.Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Omaha,
We used Toto Drake toilets and are very happy with them. We had occasional clogs at the old house with older 4 gallon Kohler toilets. In the new house with the totos, no clogs yet. The old high flow toilets were better at "cleaning" the bowl though.
regards,
Dennis
PS I can guarantee though that the toto toilets won't flush a Stanley Fat Max tape though no matter how hard my son tired...
Three Toto Augustas, occasional clogs, but only from expensive restaurants...danged good thing they don't overflow...or eat out often<G>. Hey, pocket doors can't come off the track if they're nailed open
Aha
I mis-read your post. I thought you were looking for a "dog resistant toilet".
wasn't sure what sort of issues you had . . .
Forrest
So I wasn't the only one who thought it said "dog resistant". Our border collie prefers the Toto. Elongated bowl, she can get her head in quite nicely. The cat has found that he can get two front paws in and get real close to the water.
And I like it too. Hasn't clogged in two years. Old American Standard used to clog just about every time I used it. No comments please.
Sorry I can't give you model of the Toto, just checked but all it says is toto 1.6 g flush. When I bought it, it was the middle of the price range. Not very fancy, two piece. Not power flush. The only problem I've had is the filler valve. Sometimes a piece of something (we're on well water) gets stuck in the filler valve. So the water just keeps running. The first couple of times I had to call the store to get instructions to take it apart. You have to squeeze and twist and pull, etc, about 4 or 5 steps to clear it. One it's apart, a simple rinse was all it needed. that's when a portable phone and headset really come in handy!!
I've been reading it as dog resistant since first flush
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!