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Hi, first time using this forum, seems to be a lot of collective experience out there!
Does anyone know where I can purchase “interior” grade non-insulated windows (non-opening). Purpose is to provide sound control and light transmission between two interior rooms. Interior glass “french” doors are part of the design and readily available, but besides avoiding the expense of an unnecessary exterior window, most seem to come with pre-primed or clad exteriors and I really want stain grade trim on both sides. Can anyone suggest a source or alternate technique?
Here are the details of the situation:
We have a “lofted” 34 x 18 master bedroom that has most of the interior wall completely open to a 34 x 22 great room below. The great room is vertically open all the way to the peak of this two story 34 x 40 cape (27 ft floor to peak) as is the 34 x 18 bedroom (16 ft floor to peak).
So, we have an 11 ft wide by 16 ft tall peaked opening from the bedroom overlooking the greatroom that we want to wall up for privacy and sound control. However, we still want to keep most of the great natural lighting from the great room and the airy feeling of the bedroom space. BTW, this new wall opens onto a 4 ft wide balcony (now more or less part of the bedroom) which leads to the stairway.
The plan is to install a 5 or 6 ft wide double center latch glass french doors with some matching window composition (probably arch top) above the door in this new wall. The window sills would start about 96 inches above the bedroom floor and extend up about 60-80 inches. The conceptual sketch has two mullioned rectangular windows to match the door widths topped by two quarter rounds.
I’d rather buy ready made units, but if not available I am currently thinking of framing out the openings with plain jambs, having them fitted with glass and then using muntin material on both sides of the glass to create the “lites” to match the french doors. I don’t know if this would be any more cost effective in the long run and would probably rule out quarter rounds for me. I guess one advantage to the exterior windows is that the insulated glass might provide a little extra sound deadening. Thoughts?
Sorry for the verbose post and thanks for your comments!
Rob
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Rob - "...if not available I am currently thinking of framing out the openings with plain jambs, having them fitted with glass and then using muntin material on both sides of the glass to create the "lites"..." This technique might work. And, since it is so high above both floors, it might even be pleasing to your eye. But I have yet to see "fake divided lites" that looked real to me. A local sash shop should be able to make what you need in true divided lites, especially since weather is not an issue.
Where are you located?
*How about an old salvaged wooden window? Cleaned up they would provide the stainable wood on both sides.Just a thought...Rich Beckman
*I've seen quite a few variations on wooden "snap on" muntins for prefab windows. You could easily order just the muntin in either standard or custom sizes and apply to both sides of sheet glass. I don't know how much a specialty item this is, so I have no idea where the cost vs volume equation works out (they're probably highly over priced). But like Jim says, "fake divided lites" have trouble looking real. Even from a distance your eye may glint of light from an edge that plays with your subconcious. What at first may look great might feel a little cheap once the newness wears off. Or not.You could also have the lites individually cut by the glass supplier and frame them in muntins. Glass is cheap. I don't believe this would be any more work than pasting muntins on the surface. Since you don't have to weatherize these things, the concept of "window" should be cleared out of your mind. Think more in terms of a very thin, pieced wall. Just my opinion.
*Well, if you're into woodworking, you can get some cope and stick router bits that will conform to building your own muntins, but it's very pesky work and the bits are expensive. I've done a little of this, and it's not easy. Or, you could get a woodworking shop to make these things for you. Home centers do carry windows made for barns, garages, basements that are a possiblity for you, even though most of them are finger jointed, at that height it may not matter. They are just windows, not complete units. Might be worth considering, they are not expensive.Let us know how you solved it. Good luck,MD
*Marvin and a few others make nice true-muntin stain-grade windows, you could buy sash only but it would be expensive. I think the cost has more to do with craftsmanship than making the window "exterior." Most mfrs only make fake muntins, and although this will be high up you will be looking at the muntins from a fairly oblique angle -- clip-ons will pop out from the glass and be very obvious. Plus they fall apart over time, should you have the nerve to clean the window (or even if left untouched -- my favorite is the ones i've seen that fall apart -inside- a double glazed unit, $$$ to fix). The best fakes are glued to the glass. You really should line up the vertical door and transom muntins -- the door mfr may have solutions.Double glass definitely resists sound much much better. You can get these with authentic but thick muntins, glue-ons, or the unspeakable clip-ons.The cope-and-stick thing I want to try, but I'm expecting major headaches. You can also buy preformed muntins from your trim supplier and fit glass into it; then all you'd need to shape would be the ends. and the sash perimeter. Serious work all the same, and make sure that when someone slams a door it's not going to fall apart over your head!I expect you're spending a few thousand on those french doors. Don't muck 'em up!
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Thanks all for the ideas. I haven't settled on a precise solution, but in general will be taking the "sash" approach. Once made I'll fit the wood frame and glass unit into custom made jambs that I'll then mount like a prehung door. I don't know if I'll tackle making the sash/muntins myself or have a shop do it - need to look at pricing. One idea I'm pricing is to use a cabinet door maker, such as cabinet factory, to make a couple of divided lite doors that I mount back to back with the glass sandwiched between. I expect this will be expensive, but they will make the odd shapes I want with real muntins.
FYI, one glazier I talked to gets $8.50 sqft. for 1/4" safety glass in any shape or size I want.
To andrew d. Not thousands! FYI I got a 6 foot wide double wood (clear pine) interior french door at home depot (made by WING) for $360. That was a special order but they stock 4 and 5 foot units (5 foot is $299). They are real nice for the money. The muntins are 1-1/8" wide and if they are not true divided lites it's a real good imitation.
Thanks all for your help!
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...Picchione....where ever you are.. someone has been making sash for a couple hundred years...unitl Anderseen and cohorts went national , all glazing was mfr'd local...
Here in New England you can get almost any single glazed sash you want in various styles and hundreds of stock sizes...
the biggest sash mfr & dist. is Brosco (Brockway-Smith) but there are others,,, Horner makes a lot of their own sash... there are a lot of sash makers in the New York area, and there is one in ever region... there has to be...I just don't know who they are where you live...
haven't you ever seen the Brosco book of designs?
go to a real lumber yard, and they'll order you any size sash you want
b just can't get it at the big box...
*FWIW, I have ordered sashes (sashes only, true divided lite) quite a few times from Kolbe & Kolbe. I have never ordered them stain grade but when I order from my window supplier I get the option of whatever finish I want. I normally get it primed but I'm sure I could get them bare wood just as easily. As with anything, if you order a standard size it is cheaper but you can get any size or number of lites for a modest charge. Also Kolbe has the option of 7/8" or 1-1/8" muntins which sound like they might match your doors.I have also had sashes made up at local millwork shops, and they are usually priced fairly competitively with buying from a manufacturer.
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If you are planning to isolate bedroom noises from the rest of the house, I'd go with the insulated glass, if you get the mullions inside the glass then it's easier to clean but might not match the French doors. What ever you do make noise in the bedroom just to test it out(good excuse anyway).
*Just a quick thought after reading your delema-why not a venting unit up high to allow air movement and vent any builtup heat?
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Agree with Joseph.I'm thinking dirt naturally trapped by true divided lights.Little panes, high up, hard to clean...Be sure the argon-filled windows are covered by a good warranty-sounds like lots of moisture may be trapped up there.
*No ideas but one question. How the hell are you going to wash these windows? 27' to the peak on one side, 16' in the bedroom. Move the furniture and put up scaffolding? Not as happy on ladders as I used to be, Joe H
*When washin' or dustin' use a painters pole with the brush clip on the end. But watch the end so you don't shove it thru a big screen tv when changing rags.
*>watch the end so you don't shove it thru a big screen tv when changing rags.The voice of experience?Rich Beckman
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Hi, first time using this forum, seems to be a lot of collective experience out there!
Does anyone know where I can purchase "interior" grade non-insulated windows (non-opening). Purpose is to provide sound control and light transmission between two interior rooms. Interior glass "french" doors are part of the design and readily available, but besides avoiding the expense of an unnecessary exterior window, most seem to come with pre-primed or clad exteriors and I really want stain grade trim on both sides. Can anyone suggest a source or alternate technique?
Here are the details of the situation:
We have a "lofted" 34 x 18 master bedroom that has most of the interior wall completely open to a 34 x 22 great room below. The great room is vertically open all the way to the peak of this two story 34 x 40 cape (27 ft floor to peak) as is the 34 x 18 bedroom (16 ft floor to peak).
So, we have an 11 ft wide by 16 ft tall peaked opening from the bedroom overlooking the greatroom that we want to wall up for privacy and sound control. However, we still want to keep most of the great natural lighting from the great room and the airy feeling of the bedroom space. BTW, this new wall opens onto a 4 ft wide balcony (now more or less part of the bedroom) which leads to the stairway.
The plan is to install a 5 or 6 ft wide double center latch glass french doors with some matching window composition (probably arch top) above the door in this new wall. The window sills would start about 96 inches above the bedroom floor and extend up about 60-80 inches. The conceptual sketch has two mullioned rectangular windows to match the door widths topped by two quarter rounds.
I'd rather buy ready made units, but if not available I am currently thinking of framing out the openings with plain jambs, having them fitted with glass and then using muntin material on both sides of the glass to create the "lites" to match the french doors. I don't know if this would be any more cost effective in the long run and would probably rule out quarter rounds for me. I guess one advantage to the exterior windows is that the insulated glass might provide a little extra sound deadening. Thoughts?
Sorry for the verbose post and thanks for your comments!
Rob