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Looking for window hardware

| Posted in General Discussion on July 16, 2002 04:58am

I am contemplating building some small windows for my new home workshop. I think it would be a fun project to break the place in.

I would like to build outward opening casements that are similar to those on my home.

Does anybody know where to get the hinges and latches for this type of window?

 

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  1. BungalowJeff | Jul 16, 2002 08:08am | #1

    Try http://www.vandykes.com

    ...that's not a mistake, it's rustic

    1. MrPita2 | Jul 16, 2002 03:02pm | #2

      http://www.blainewindow.com/If everything seems to be going well, you've obviously overlooked something.

  2. jimblodgett | Jul 16, 2002 05:04pm | #3

    Check out Whitco casement and awning hardware at http://www.vincentwhitney.com.  Good stuff, that will last as long as the building.  All you have to do is mill a rabbet top and bottom on your sash and they work beautifully.  I have some in my house close to 20 years old that work like new.

    I just started using weatherstripping from Resource Conservation Technologies (410) 366-1146.  I don't think they have a web site yet, but give them a call, they'll send you a catalog.  Real easy to machine for if you know what you're going to use before you build your jambs.  They have several profiles available, depending on your application.

    Blaine http://www.blainewindow.com. does offer a boatload of hinges and latches too. I like the type latches glass shops sell for alluminum windows, but I like simple things.  Mico cabinet hinges and wire cabinet pulls work great for screens. 

  3. JohnSprung | Jul 17, 2002 12:12am | #4

    I'm putting outswing casements in my house, 37 of them.  I got 3x3 Baldwin brass butt hinges from Clement Hardware, (418) 647-4611.  After some looking around, they had the best price, $14.03/pair, if you wait for a factory order.  If you really want those edge slide type hinges, I have a 5 gallon bucket of them.  They're kinda flimsy for a large window, and on a small one the hinge edges of the sash move inward as they open, which feels cramped to me, and just doesn't look right.

    -- J.S.

    1. Rein_ | Jul 18, 2002 07:35am | #5

      Thanks everybody. These all look like good reading.

      I already found Blaine and they have some nice stuff and are sending me a catalogue.

      Is it me or all of the schematics from these manufacturers hard to follow?

      I am looking forward to the catalogue, just so I can figure out the way to mill my window frames. I guess the first manufacturer to supply clear directions will get my business. ;-)

      Maybe the directions are a bit cryptic just to protect the window manufacturers with the brains to decipher them!

      1. jimblodgett | Jul 18, 2002 04:35pm | #6

        "...so I can figure out the way to mill my window frames."

        You mean the sash, or the jambs?

        Brinkman for president in '04

        1. Rein_ | Jul 18, 2002 06:14pm | #7

          Well, sash and jambs actually.

          Most of the cranks and hinges require some mortising into the sash and jamb so they could be recessed and mounted.

          Not having done this before, I am looking for explicit instructions for the hardware I choose.

          Blaine sent me some good details on their product, but there are no dimensions for how to prepare the wood.

          1. jimblodgett | Jul 18, 2002 08:47pm | #8

            If you use Whitco hinges, under $20.00 a pair, the finish size of the sash is about 1/4" less each direction than the interior measurements of the rabbet- which gives a 1/8" reveal all the way around.  You cut a 5/16" x 1+1/8" rabbet in the top and bottom of the sash.  Screw the hinge to the sash, then the jamb and you're done.  If your sash is, say, 1+3/8" or thereabouts, that lip of the rabbet covers the hinge and protects it from the elements.

            These Whitco hinges are made in such a way that they stay where you open them to, even quite heavy awning windows, so you don't need any crank mechanism or hold open hardware, just a simple latch.  They also open way past 90 degrees, so you can clean the outside of the window from inside the room - I think they're way better for casement or awning windows than butt hinges - but then again, I prefer simple, practicle things.

            For the jambs I used to rabbet 2 x stock.  But a few years ago I hit on the idea of building up that rabbet by screwing two pieces of 1 x together, face to face, in such a way that they are staggered to form the rabbet for the sash - saves lumber and money, since you use fewer board feet and 1 x is cheaper in the first place.  In fact, if you plan to paint the exterior surfaces, cedar, or some other weather resistant wood wood be better for the outside 1 x , or "rabbeting jamb", as I call it.  I usually use VG Fir (have to bow my head when I say that) for the inner jamb, but a person could use whatever wood they wanted for that since it's protected from the elements.

            I recently wrote quite a detailed article for the magazine about building casement windows and have a few photos they sent me from the photo shoot.  I don't have many, but I think they might help explain.  I've never posted any photos, but I could try, if you'd like.  I'd offer to forward the e-mail with the pictures, but I think there are copyright issues involved.

            Cripes, I gotta get a scanner.

              

            Brinkman for president in '04

          2. Rein_ | Jul 19, 2002 05:11am | #9

            Thanks Jim,

            I think you have got me going on the right track. I like the Whitco's simplicity too. Especially since these will be small windows that do not really need the crank.

            I was thinking of building the units out of clear pine. The cedar supply around here stinks and good fir is almost impossible to find. 

            I'm looking forward to that article, is it coming out soon? Maybe I'll wait before I start my project. 

            Any advice on weather stripping I should also consider?

          3. jimblodgett | Jul 19, 2002 06:30am | #10

            Yeah, heck yeah.  I'm all excited about this weatherstripping I used for this last set I built. That was the big design evolution this time around, that and West System epoxy.

            We live in the Pacific Northwest and the climate is real mild, it rarely freezes or gets above 80 degrees.  So I got by just fine for many years using that peel and stick weatherstripping from the lumber yard.  But it falls off and I wanted to find a better product.

            Holy smokes, man, the Mariners just squeezed in the go ahead run in the top of the 9th!

            So anyway, Resource Conservation Technologies had just what I wanted.  I used their flipper style silicone weatherstripping.  I just ran the face of the inner jamb through the table saw, I think it was 5/16" from the fence, to cut a shallow kerf and the barbed portion of the weatherstripping snuggles right in that saw kerf.  It has a pretty wide compression range. If the sash is 1+3/8", make the rabbet in the jamb 1+5/8" to allow 1/4" for the weatherstripping and the 1+3/8" for the sash, and when the window is closed the face of the jamb and the face of the sash will be in the same plane, while at the same time compressing the weatherstripping slightly to form a good seal.  They also have various sizes of bulb type, but you have to work to closer tolerances.  That flipper design worked great for me.  They make all types of sweeping weatherstripping for double hungs and door bottoms.  Fact is, everyone should have their catalog handy just to see what's available.

            Another thing, make sure to cut a taper on the top of the bottom rabbeting jamb to shed any moisture, 7, 10, 12 degrees, something like that.  On awning units I taper the bottom of the sash to match and mill a drip kerf in the bottom of the sash rail.  But on casement units the edge of the hinge rabbet is only 5/16" or so thick, so water falls off that instead of wicking back up behind, so that edge serves as a drip edge.

            Pine should work fine for your windows; that's what most commercially built units are made of.  Just use as close to vertical grain as you can get - maybe rip your sash stock from the outer edges of 2x10, or 2x12 - there's lots of good vertical grain on regular framing lumber.  It should be down below 10% humidity when you mill it too.  Windows and doors are subjected to some viscious conditions when you consider one side of the sash is exposed to the weather and the other is interior millwork. 

            But it's a great challenge, straight forward joinery and simple materials, but you have to work to pretty exacting tollerances.  You'll really feel that sense of accomplishment when you build your first one.  I still do and I've built quite a few now.

            I don't think that article will be published for at least a year, Rein.  We just finished the photo shoot a couple months ago and it takes a while for these things to see the light of day. I'd really like to hear how yours are coming, or offer any help.  Feel free to e mail me if you get stuck.

            Oh, screens.  That's one thing a lot of guys will say, that Whitco hinges are great, but  installing screens is tricky.  Not so.  Give me a holler when you get to that point.  It's real straight forward using cabinet hinges and stops - piece of cake.

            I'll try to post some photos, but that could take a while.  Its all I can do turn this thing on.

            Brinkmann for president in '04

          4. JohnSprung | Jul 22, 2002 08:02pm | #16

            Rein --

            How many windows are you making?  I have 66 pair of those edge slide hinges in that 5 gallon bucket.  I need the bucket, but you're welcome to as many hinges as you want.  They're a make other than Whitco, I don't remember what at the moment.  Just let me know how many and where to send them.

            -- J.S.

          5. JohnSprung | Jul 19, 2002 10:07pm | #11

            > Most of the cranks and hinges require some mortising

            I've never had anything but grief from those crank openers, so now I'm  just going to use the traditional European long hook and eye hardware.  Nothing could be simpler.

            -- J.S.

          6. jimblodgett | Jul 20, 2002 06:49am | #12

            Okay, Rein, this is my first try in the real world.  Thanks, David Doud.

            Brinkmann for president in '04

          7. stefs3 | Jul 22, 2002 04:48am | #13

            This has all become far too complicated.

            YOu can get perfectly good hinges (brass plated, 3x3, 4 screws) from your local box store for not too many bucks.

            Then , from Restoration Hardware, some old style controllers that require no morticing, etc., and latches from Antique Hardware and Home 800 422 9982.

            Out where we are, Colorado, those cheesly controllers turn to crap in a short time. I just finished 50 casement windows for a client, and the hardware installation was only a fraction of the time to make the windows.

          8. Rein_ | Jul 22, 2002 05:15am | #14

            Stef, your suggestion looks good. 

            I will look into that approach too. I have to admit that Jim's advise has got me sold for this project, especially after I looked at the pic he posted.

            If these windows go well, I think I may be inspired to try some more. Then I can start using some experience to evaluate more suggestions.

          9. jimblodgett | Jul 22, 2002 06:01am | #15

            Stef - Butt hinges work fine, no question there.  You still need that third piece of hardware to hold them open though, don't you?  On the plus side for butt hinges is the egress issue.  You really have to watch that, since the Whitco hinges bring the sash back into the opening.

            The other thing I really like about Whitco hinges is that they open way past 90 degrees, maybe to 135, maybe farther, so you can clean the outside of the window from inside the room.  That's a biggie.

            Hey! What type weather stripping do you use?  How do you build your jambs?

            Brinkmann for president in '04

          10. timkline | Jul 22, 2002 08:47pm | #17

            Stef

            You may think your solution is simpler, but in the time you spent mortising the butt hinges into the casement sashes, I could have cut the 2 rabbets in the same sash for the Whitco hinges. Which just eliminated the need for the "old style" hold-open hardware. If you had shown your client the Whitco hinge and how it operates ( push the window open and it stays put ), I can assure you that they would not have chosen butt hinges and the obtrusive look of hold-opens and the hassle that goes with their operation. The Whitco hinges are invisible when the window is closed, and attractive when open.  Truly a wonderful product.

            carpenter in transition

          11. DavidxDoud | Jul 23, 2002 05:28am | #18

            tell me more about these windows - stock units aready framed that you dadoed for the hindges and built casing for? (am I using 'frame' and 'casing' backwards?) - - rather than buying pre-hung units? - - our library (yours truly = pres of the board) is working with architects on a modest addition to our clean original 1916 'craftsman/arts&craft' structure and we want a reading room off the corner with casement windows around the perimeter - something like your window (with two or three horizontal parting strips across the sash) is close to what we visualize - (these architects are just beginning to realize what they are getting into) -- modest does not preclude being special -

          12. jimblodgett | Jul 23, 2002 07:12am | #19

            Actually I built that window, David.  I bought the hardware and ordered the glass to fit, but built the rest - 16 pieces of wood, including stops for the glass.  It's far easier than most people think.  I'll try to post another photo taken from outside the house.

            Last winter I built 17 windows for another house and I was tempted to divide the glazing like you describe, but in the end I settled for simple sash like these.  It fit the house better and besides, I like clean, simple design - probably the Shaker influence I have always admired.

            window sash - the part that holds the glass, in a double hung unit it is the part that slides up and down, in a casement it's the part that swings open.

            window jamb - the frame the sash is hinged to, or in the case of a double hung the part that the sash slides up and down in.

            window casing - the trim around the exterior and/or interior of a window, usually paralell to the glass when the window is closed.

            Brinkmann for president in '04

          13. DavidxDoud | Jul 23, 2002 08:23am | #20

            ordered the glass to fit

            you already had the view window?  is this casements on either side of a view? ah - was replying while waiting for the pict to load - all three sash movable - or not?  middle sash opens in? removed for the drive-thru? - I'm guessing a south exposure? - don't see any flashing above?  sash = glazing +frame? -

            I've got 17 casements on the porch (the Minnesota room) that were salvaged from a victim of a strip mall - they are fit and hung with one screw thru each hinge - I cannot find the catches for the latches - can't finish the stops/etc until I can latch them - - I stored the windows several years in an outbuilding along with other prime stash - the container that the catches should have been in was setting on the framing right above the windows,  but empty - - I have looked everywhere but where they are - got to make 34 catches - grrr -

            howd you frame the glazing?  mortise/tendon? wooden stop strip? you just go right ahead and print that article right here - inquiring minds want to know - DOUD

          14. jimblodgett | Jul 24, 2002 01:32am | #21

            "all three sash movable - or not?  middle sash opens in?"

            The two outer sections have sash that open, the center is a fixed glass unit.  I  built a similar set for the master bedroom in a house this winter that all three sections open.  Two close on one another so the opening meets egress requirements when they're open. I don't have any photos of that one, but I actually like the unballanced look of it better than these XOX type.

            "- I'm guessing a south exposure? - don't see any flashing above?"

            Actually that window faces due West.  The picture window with awnings below it that is visible to the left faces South, along with a set of French doors and another picture w/two awnings on the other side of the doors.

            There's no flashing above any of those windows.  They're all well protected by the roof overhang above.  Even the siding gets rained on only about once every few years - maybe twice in the past 18 years, and even then just a little at the bottom of the west wall.  

            "howd you frame the glazing?  mortise/tendon?"

            Yeah, first I milled the rabbet for the glass, then milled the m&t.  I'll try to post a couple of pics of that, but I don't have much.  And yes, wood stops to hold the glazing in place.  The ones I build now, the stop stands about 1/4" proud of the face of the sash allowing for a nice caulk joint there...all those little things... 

              

            Brinkmann for president in '04

            Edited 7/23/2002 6:37:08 PM ET by jim blodgett

          15. DavidxDoud | Jul 24, 2002 08:06am | #22

            thanks - I'm looking forward to your article - met with another group of architects today on the library project - if you have Stickley's 'Craftsman Homes',  check page 56 - we are talking about our addition resembling the main facade of that house,  off the blank side of our building - proportionally this is a pretty good match for our situation - got to have the right windows in the reading room in north-west tower - I don't think commercial units will be the way to go -

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