My brother killed himself almost two weeks ago. He did post here occassionally under the Flashy2000 (I think that was his handle) after I pointed him in this direction a year or so ago. John was going through rough periods in his life; I had mentioned this to Bob Walker a while back. Some may remember he had posted up a topic about putting in a new deck where he had been living with my folks for the past five years. Some were wondering where he got the illustration for his graphic he attached. Also at issue was whether or not to tie into the house itself; my mom didn’t want him to do it, he didn’t. He didn’t reply in the post for a week or so as his computer got hacked.
I’m attaching a couple pictures of the completed deck. It took him about eight months to complete; part of his problem(s). But, it turned out pretty dang nice, and the trellis (sp?) he added kind of finished the whole thing off. I think he also made a post about some of the Epay falling on his foot and swelling it quite significantly.
I would like to thank those who responded to his queries especially regarding the deck; ProDeck immediately comes to mind. As has been the case for me posting here over the last couple years; sometimes you just need a little help to get you in the direction regarding a construction question, issue, concern. John had so many of the tools to be successful in life, and due to a number of reasons, just couldn’t make them all jive to the tune of what we often take for granted; just simply living.
I loved John soooooooooo much and during the life sentence of pain I will wrestle with, I feel I owe him taking this pain as he was obviously going through an amount of pain in life that I will not fully understand or feel.
Edited 3/17/2005 1:44 pm ET by Wiley
Replies
I can't seem to attach the pictures at the moment, but will try a little later. I'm just getting hung up i.e. not going to another window when clicking the "Attach Files" button.
If you're running a popup blocker, turn it off and try again.
Thanks Uncle, that did the trick.
I am so sorry for your family's loss. That deck is beautiful. Your brother clearly had tremendous potential.
our regards to you and yours
thankful you have the deck from your brother to carry on with you
So sorry to hear about your brother.
You and your family will be included in my prayers.
Condolences to you and the family.Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Awfully sorry to hear about your Brother.
Hope you're doing O.K.
I'm sorry to hear of your loss Wiley. Words seem very empty for a time like this...
I'm sorry, Wiley. It sounds like he lost his hope. He never lost, or will lose, your love though. May you find peace.
Lisa
"A completed home is a listed home."
Wow, what an amazing post. The deck is wonderful and I'll be thinking of you. This must be hard on everyone.
-peace
Christi
~Peace
Wiley,
First of all, I'm really sorry about your brother. I wish I could have helped.
If you don't mind, I'm going to save these pics as a sort of remembrance. And inspiration.
Also, if you don't mind, I'm going to get kind of personal here...
I've heard a saying that goes something like "your 'luck' gets better by your own hand"...
I feel that I have been luckier than your brother. Both by my own hand, and by those of friends...
One thing about my condition, that I have never been able to communicate well enough:
I may be able to do things that make me seem "normal". I may have aptitudes, much like your brother showed here. I may even show above normal aptitudes in some things. Maybe even including communication...
But that will never make me "normal".
If I pressure myself to be "normal", I become outwardly more so, but inwardly less so. If I continue the pressure, there is only one place it can eventually lead.
If others pressure me to be "normal"... Same story. Only the effect is more pronounced, and faster.
Others can try to 'love' me into normal, 'encourage' me into normal, etc... in the end, it is all just one thing... pressure to be 'normal'. And in the end, it only leads in one direction.
.
...How I have been 'lucky':
I moved out here, for one. Away from daily contact with people who all saw only the capability to be 'normal', (On the outside. What they see...), and so expected that of me.
For another, I recognized at about the point that I made the decision to move out here, that I was not 'normal'. That I may never be again. But that what I AM is acceptable. Eccentric, maybe. Quirky, maybe. Ok, so nutso is more like it. But acceptable.
I am no threat to anyone. Never have been, never will be. I try to be a positive part of society as much as I am able to be a part of society. And as long as I accept myself as I am, and refuse to be pressured, encouraged, 'loved' or in any other way, pushed to be 'normal'... I am not a threat to myself, either.
I didn't know your brother.
I could be way off base here. Both in my gut feeling about this, and in my even bringing it up. If so, please accept my humblest apology.
When I hear the tale of someone who was a good person. Who seemed to have a lot going for them. But who "carried a lot of inexplicable pain", or any one of many ways of describing it... I hurt, and I wonder.
I wonder, if they had simply accepted themselves as they were, and stop letting others, and their own "protestant work ethic, pull yourself up by your bootstraps" mentality, have such reign in their lives... I wonder if they would have left us so soon.
I fight a battle every single day. Every day. Maybe what you would describe as carrying a great deal of pain that no one else can understand.
I have been lucky enough to stumble across a realization that I didn't have to stay on the same track as everyone else.
That I could learn my own strengths, and not only learn my weaknesses, but learn ways to deal with them.
I may never be normal.. But I do have a life that is worth living. And I do think that occassionally, just occassionally, I am able to give someone else a little something that is worth living for.
I can do so, because I do not have the burden, every morning, when I get up... to be "normal".
I want more than almost anything else, to be "normal". I can't tell you how much I want that. But I also want to live long enough to feel like I have done as much good as I can with this life... So "normal" can just kiss my .....
I wish that I could have known your brother.
And again, if I am over the line here, I am very sorry. Please accept my humblest apology. I am just hoping that this is a good opportunity to give others, a bit of an insight into themselves, or someone they love...
I will delete this, if you want me to.
I will be praying for you and your family.
The person you offend today, may have been your best friend tomorrow
It is easy to be friends with someone you always agree with.
Hey brotha......great post.
If you aint normal, I hope you never will be. Your better than most just as you is.
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Thank you all for your sentiments. I probably wouldn't have made the post if he had not been part of the community here; I guess I'm just trying to close out a few things. Kind of like calling his extended contacts, former colleagues, etc., to let them know.
Luka, I appreciate your personalizing your post and of course I would not ask you to delete anything you wrote. I think I can write that I understand your "normal" or not so normal analogy or outline. But the big difference is that you did something for yourself, you made a change, you were proactive in your approach to your "condition."
It is very complicated with my brother John (and that's not to discount anyone else as not being complicated). I am making an effort to unravel his condition to an extent. It is multi-faceted; I always thought it was just something fairly straightforward (I guess as straightforward as one can get with mental illness) that, although maybe not a quick process, one that with medication and proper counseling, he could live a "normal" life i.e. productive to and for himself at the very least.
The root of John's problems we are discovering more and more is that it was a gambling addition. I think with that addiction, after a little research, comes a domino affect of other behaviors and "issues." He had been on some medications off and on over the years, and had been seeing a therapist for over a year lately, till last December. He quit seeing the therapist and seemed to not be getting much better i.e. repeating old habits and behaviors. My mother and sister went to the therapist, discussed the gambling thing and John in general: this was before he died. The therapist had NO idea he had a gambling problem, and as such couldn't help since he didn't deal with additions. However, part of the problem was that John obviously wouldn't admit that he had a gambling problem which is the first step to treating any type of addiction.I guess my rambling point is that although I knew John needed some help "mentally," the real root of the problem was a gambling addiction; and maybe others need to look at something not so obvious for a "sick" loved-one even with obvious problems. That's not to write that he was out playing cards or pulling slots every night, or every week, or possibly every month, but when looking at some of the characteristics of what a gambler does (things like always trying to get the home run instead of a single in the walks of life), it really is obvious; and my mom and sister obviously thought it significant enough to bring to the attention of the therapist who was good enough to call John like four times over the past couple months and either didn't get return phone calls or perfunctory return calls at best.
I am planning to attend some gamblers anonymous meetings to really find out what this addiction does to others. I guess I need to understand in part what he was going through. And without trying to be a martyr, I realize that he taking his life affects many, many people. And cumulatively that pain is probably more than what John was feeling, but individually, I don't think the pain could be near what he was feeling. So I feel I owe my brother to take the pain that has been doled out to me, my share, for him because he was obviously in soooooooo much pain, me just a fraction of what he was feeling.
I feel like a part of me is gone; the humphffff is kind of out of me...I hope that will come back. I can joke around with other people around, but it is to put them more at ease, and I'm not trying to make light of the situation. I had sent my brother a somewhat terse e-mail because he wanted to borrow some money that he needed to close out a bank account where each day he was coming more and more into the negative. My mother had given him the money the day before, but he took it to the Indian Casino and gambled it away. The money he wanted from me he justified as a loan since we were working together on selling a vehicle on my parent's property that belonged to me, we would split the profits. I basically called him on his behavior and actions and noted that I would give him a meal if he was hungry, give him a coat if he was cold, but not give him any money, and that he needed to level with our mom. The e-mail was more lengthy than that, I said he had a lot going for him, that I loved him, etc. He killed himself later that night/early morning. He had my e-mail by his side, and a thank you note written by my sister for my nephew, illustrated by my/our five-year old nephew.
His response to me was: "Tell me how you REALLY feel. <g> I love you too. See you on the other side." I did not see this till the next morning, when he was missing, but all the while dead on my parent's property where he was found two days later.
Intellectually I can rationalize that I didn't kill him, but will wrestle the rest of my life with the thought(s) that had I given him the money, he would still be alive, at least for a while longer. I can take some solace that it was me that perhaps pushed him instead of him taking his life say after he and my mom had an argument. This is already very difficult for a 76-year old woman, and I would shudder to think what it would do to her if she thought she pushed him to such a decision.
For others here who have/had similar pain and experiences, all I can write is that I'm trying more and more to feel your pain, or understand it. Life was clicking along, not with wreckless abandon, but without heavy thoughts of what might come; other than the fact that my parents are getting on in years and that I might be getting "one of those phone calls" in the near future; in fact that was making me a little anxious on occassion. The call I got almost two weeks was a shocker. Anyway, my point is that I think I can empathize more with those that are full of grief. When some of my friends' parents have passed or their other loved-ones, I just never "got it" fully, but have much more understanding now, and will in the future.
I know you "know" this, but let me echo it. He did not end his life because you did not lend him money. He ended his life because the pain of his illness was unbearable and he had no nope that anything would ever really change. Mental illness is cruel that way; the thing that's needed to cure it (a healthy mind) is the very thing that is afflicted. We have dealt with this in our own extended family as too. Two survive, two didn't. Your own pain will dull over time, but you will never fill the hole he left in your heart. That hole is a testament to how you loved each other. Take care of yourself. Thanks for letting us understand this with you.
Lisa"A completed home is a listed home."
Sorry for the loss of your brother.
The deck and trellis look great, he did a good job.
Dave
I am so saddened to read of John's suicide and to know of the loss and and pain you and your family are feeling.
May you find comfort and peace in your heart from your God and within your family and community, and may you understand there are limits to what any of us can do to help those with that sort of desparate need.
2 Corinthians 1:3-4 (NIV)
3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort, 4 who comforts us in all our troubles, so that we can comfort those in any trouble with the comfort we ourselves have received from God.
Ecclesiastes 3
A Time for Everything
1 There is a time for everything,
and a season for every activity under heaven:
2 a time to be born and a time to die,
a time to plant and a time to uproot,
3 a time to kill and a time to heal,
a time to tear down and a time to build,
4 a time to weep and a time to laugh,
a time to mourn and a time to dance,
5 a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them,
a time to embrace and a time to refrain,
6 a time to search and a time to give up,
a time to keep and a time to throw away,
7 a time to tear and a time to mend,
a time to be silent and a time to speak,
8 a time to love and a time to hate,
a time for war and a time for peace
It is now your time to mourn and to cry and to grieve.
And it is your time to celebrate John and the good in his life, as you have done here so well.
John and you and your family will be in my prayers, and I will lift you up for God's healing.
from my end that was one of the most heartfelt embraces , that i have ever read here.
rest easy..... p.s. havent forgotten about you, been hectic...."expectations are premeditated resentments"
Sorry Wiley, and thanks for the sharing the deck. Don't worry, we can fix that later!
Truly sorry to hear of your loss.
I hadn`t seen any of the original threads regarding the deck...I`m glad I caught this one. He did wonderful work.
Gods speed to you and yours.
ATTENTION FELLOW BREAKTIME MEMBERS:
If you`d like to discuss topics other than home building, come on down to the Woodshed Tavern. Great bunch of guys and gals letting off a little steam about everything and anything. Its not a special club, but.....as of Monday, March 14, the Tavern folder will go behind an access wall. Only those who request access to this folder by contacting [email protected] will be able to view and participate in discussions there.
first ... nice looking deck.
second .... coupla years back ... I had a great friend ... actually more of a mentor/older brother ... go and kill himself.
I was mad. Been .... close to 10 years now .... still get mad. But more understanding ... no, that's not the right word ... forgiving maybe? ... as the years go on. At first I cried ... and was mad ... very mad.
Now ... when I think about him ... like now .... I just tear up and miss him.
Sounds like a similar dude ... great guy ... but had deep seeded issues. You'da thot he had the world by the tail .... obviously ... he didn't. Or at least didn't think he did.
I'm pretty sure he "hurt himself" before he hurt anyone else. That kinda thinking.
So on days when I look at my little boy and think Damn U Mike, my kid will never know you .... I just do my best to teach the boy the things the Mike taught me.
Somewhere along the way I learned .... being mad is OK.
It'll get better ...
it'll take a long, long time ....
but it'll get better.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
Wiley,
I lost my brother seven(has it really been that long?) years ago in a similar way.
He couldn't beat his demons-he gave it he11 trying.
I still miss him, and I'm most sorry my boys don't benefit from his presense. My mother will never be over it. I guess he didn't understand how much he meant to the rest of us; the blackness he felt inside is something I guess I'll never understand.
It chokes me up right now thinking and writing about him.
Feel free to e-mail me if i can be of any help.
The deck he built is beautiful, I hope it is a reminder of the good in your brother.
John Svenson, builder, remodeler, NE Ohio
Wiley
I'm sorry to hear this.
I've had a couple people very close to me leave in a similar way.
It still pains me to think what they were going through.
My thoughts are with you and your family.
Doug
Wiley,I'm sorry to hear about John. I lost a very close cousin once and sometimes worry about one of my brothers.That's a beautiful deck he made.Hope you two meet again up the road.Dog
so sorry for your loss.