Replies

1. 
   Dave45 | Jun 20, 2008 05:39am | #1

   The low voltage lighting I have uses direct bury wire.  IIRC it's 12 ga, two conductor, stranded wire.  Whatever it is, it's been in and working fine for over 20 years.  I've replaced most of the original lights and added a couple, but the wire is still good. (Well, there was the time when I cut it with a shovel, but t hat's another story. - lol)

   Since you haven't poured your walks yet, take this opportunity to drop a few pieces of capped PVC under the walk at concenient locations.  Make a drawing so you know where they are and someday you'll be glad that you did.  Even if you never use them, a new owner might give you a silent "Thanks" sometime.

   Pay attention to the total wattage of your lights.  Too many lights - or too much wattage - will screw things up because your transformer can't give them what they need.  I once had to buy several 4W bulbs 'cause I was trying to run too many 7's.

1. 
   popawheelie | Jun 20, 2008 06:20am | #2

   Thanks! The 12 ga, two conductor, stranded wire is what I've seen around and looked at today at the lighting store. I'll run that to the wires coming out of the end of the rope light.

   I just buried three 3" w&d PVC pipes under the walkway in different locations. I'll be running sprinkler pipe, low voltage wire, and maybe some high voltage wire through them.

1. 
   VaTom | Jun 20, 2008 04:10pm | #3

   I just ran 12 ga through pvc conduit.  5- 120 v. lights around the patio sitting on outdoor boxes in the concrete, 2 on a concrete retaining wall.  Worked extremely well. 

   Is there an advantage to low voltage?  PAHS works.  Bury it.

1. 
   popawheelie | Jun 20, 2008 04:39pm | #4

   Well... first off I'm no expert. But... I tend to over think things by most peoples standards.

   I'm planning on having at least two circuits in the front yard.

   The one circuit that came up for this step is going to come on every night and I really dislike wasting anything. So I want ( I'm not sure about this yet) to set this circuit up with low voltage (12V) so I can power it with photo voltaic eventually. All I would need is a solar collector and a battery.

   If I set up the lights on 12V and run a separate circuit I can work out the details later. I'm thinking 12V is about right for this. Kind of like an auto system with a 12V car battery.

   These lights that will come on every night will be like night lights. They don't need to really illuminate much. Just let you know they are there and show where a step is. right now I'm definitely putting this step light on it and the house numbers. Maybe a string of path lights, front door key illumination. Small wattage stuff.

   Edited 6/20/2008 9:43 am ET by popawheelie

2. 
   leftisright | Jun 20, 2008 04:46pm | #5

   Yah, it don't shock the pizz out of you when you put the fixtures on. You can install them while the line is hot. And you don't have to pay one of them 'lectricans 100 an hour to put it in, no permit required. But.....the transformer must be on a GFCI protected outlet with one of those all weather covers.

   Edited 6/20/2008 9:47 am ET by leftisright

1. 
   popawheelie | Jun 20, 2008 05:32pm | #6

   One of the reson I'd like to use a solar panel is because of the transformers. I figure if i keep everything 12V it will be pretty effecient.

2. 
   leftisright | Jun 20, 2008 11:08pm | #7

   The solar sets are fine but don't expect much in light quality.  Are you using something different in solar?  Most of the one's I'm familiar with have a solar array on the top of the fixture and run on one or two rechargeable AA cell batteries.

    

   If you have some way to charge a larger 12v battery I guess you could use the regular low voltage fixtures. I didn't look at the picture that close but are you trying to put a light under the lip of the step to light it up. I can only thing of one type of fixture that will work for that. a surface mount 1/2 circle shape thingie.

3. 
   popawheelie | Jun 21, 2008 12:21am | #8

   I did a fair amount of looking for a 12V rope light. I wanted it concealed under the lip and accross 4' of the 5' lip. you can order different lengths I want.

   http://www.csnlighting.com/asp/show_detail.asp?sku=ALI2200&refid=FR19-ALI2200

3. 
   CapnMac | Jun 21, 2008 01:04am | #9

   Is there an advantage to low voltage?

   Primary one is in lamp wattage.  At night less is more.  You can get LV lamps down to 4W, which are dim alone, but "enough" in combination.  Your best eye comfort at night is with the least contrast between pure dark and the light.  Fifteen 4w lamps illuminates a better area with less eye strain than one 60w.

   LV also offers a range of fixture and accessories choices, too, with relatively simple connections.

   That being said, I'd rather conduit (whether sleeved through concrete or buried under) over embedding direct-burial conductor.  The reason for that is that things change.  A person might be happy with an array of 6-7 fixtures to start.  But, then you might want to add something at the end, or change the kinds of fixtures.  After a bit the lines can get chewed up a tad from all those bite fittings poked into it.  Or, a tree might mature down at one end and "want" a spotlight fixture. 

   LV spots are not always very "happy"  at the end of a rin of LV.  I've found that running cable for them specifically gives much better results.  Hard to run that second conductor through concrete.  But, this is something I have learned to be biased about.  That, and "collecting" the transformers in one spat seems to be simpler for the overall electrical plan, too.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)

1. 
   leftisright | Jun 21, 2008 06:55am | #10

   You're right about the guys on the end. If  If I remember correctly the longest run with 12 gauge is 150 feet and I think that's pushing it.

2. 
   CapnMac | Jun 21, 2008 07:17am | #11

   If I remember correctly the longest run with 12 gauge is 150 feet and I think that's pushing it

   Sounds right.  Might could get 200' by only using 80% of rated.

   For spots, which tend to be 15-25W each, I used to run them on individual wires back to the transformer, soemtimes on equal-length conductor runs just so the impedence was equal at each fixture.

   Which is something Line Voltage has all over LV.  But, let a careless pruner or arborist tangle up in Line Voltage--not pretty.  other thing LV 7 trees have is that it's not  a huge deal if tree roots get entangled with the LV direct burial cable, a union splice was generally good for the short run to/up the tree--not the case with birect burial 120V conductor.

   Now, the thing I always wanted was a "wall wart" that would neatly run Line Voltage tree light strings.  Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)

3. 
   wrudiger | Jun 21, 2008 07:20am | #12

   "...longest run with 12 gauge is 150 feet and I think that's pushing it."

    

   All depends on the transformer.  Here's a quote from the spec sheet for the transformer I prefer to use (http://www.uniquelighting.com/product_pages/Multi-Matic_Transformers.htm):

   "The Multi-Matic compensates for voltage drop by allowing selections from up to eight different voltage taps. This allows you to customize the voltage for each individual run. It's like having eight different transformers in one. With this feature there is usually no need for expensive #8 or #10 wire (with the exception of an extra-ordinary long run). In addition, you may have wire runs up to 800' instead of the traditional shorter runs of 100' or less. (Please refer to voltage charts)."

   I'm pretty sure the voltage chart is somewhere on that site, just couldn't find it.

4. 
   BillHartmann | Jun 21, 2008 06:37pm | #13

   But you still need to be concerned with voltage drop. If you have a long run with light strung along it then you will have lower voltage at the end of the string than at the begining.Several options to help with this.One is to run the supply to the MIDDLE of the string. Then the lights are the far end have only 1/2 of the distance and drop from the middle as end feed.And other is to make the string into a loop with power feed at each end..
   .
   A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.

5. 
   wrudiger | Jun 22, 2008 12:09am | #14

   There is another part of this company's design, though anyone could do it - hub & spoke.  They have equal distance (25') leads on every fixture; they all come into a junction (2" ABS with a cap) and are fed by the main line.  If I recall correctly, the spec is no more than 5 fixtures in a hub, plus the main line.  The further out from the transformer, the more volts you run to that hub.