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A few days ago, I needed a 5/8″ steel bit to bore a hole into some 1/4” steel. Shopped all the local warehouses and hardware suppliers just to find that this particlar bit was no less than TEN BUCKS, wherever I went! I passed through town and saw a “Grand Opening” sign to a new Harbor Freight outlet, went in, and found an entire set of steel drill bits, from 9/16 thru 1 inch for $21.99. I purchased the set. The 5/8″ bit performed well. My question is, are these tools and accessories (so mass produced) worth the price, or am I “geting what I paid for”. Please advise.
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Richard
>You get what you pay for. If you use something occasionally, get the best deal you can; but if you are using soemthing day-in-day out, get something with a name behind it and from a reputable supplier so you can go back if you have to.
HF has some unbeliveable deals - I bought a drill bit set smallest size to 1/2" with a very nice metal case for $7.99. I also have had good service with HF - on a farily cheap item that did not work when it arrived -- they sent me a new one without returning the old; the packaging on one order left something to be desired and a couple of the punches fell out along the way -- they sent me a whole set without retun of the origianl; and lastly I bought a Makita grinder that did not last as long as it should and they repalced without any questions or hassels.
hope this helps
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Tools made in China, Taiwan, etc. have come a long way. There was a time when quality was a problem do to the types of materials used. Quality in tools is a mysterious thing to most people, amateurs and professionals alike. The real question is not where the tool is made but what it is made from and the manufacturing technique used. The phrase "Made in America" does not carry the weight it use to. In today's market it's cutting costs that count.
If you want true long lasting quality in tools and your profession is someone like a Machinist or Tool Maker, then stick with the proven name brands. If all you want is a general all-purpose drill then buy what you can get at a good price. The name of the game here is how long the cutting edge will last under severe conditions and drilling into steel is pretty brutal.
In short, foreign brand drills are OK and some are even better then USA brands. To the occasional buyer it's the luck of the draw.
Hint for making your drills last a long time when drilling into metal:
Always use the correct speed, the larger the drill the slower the speed. Feed is also important and drilling with a hand drill is very difficult here. The drill needs to be pushed into the work piece with the right amount of constant forward force. Watch the chip it will tell you what's happening. A curling chip is a good feed, a blue colored chip is to hot and it usually means too much speed but in some steels a light blue is OK. And always, always, always use a cutting fluid. In an emergency any kind of oil will do for steel and kerosene is good for aluminum. The best thing is any name brand cutting fluid. Keep a small bottle in your truck; a little goes a long way and it will save you from paying that $10.00 again or make those Taiwanese drills last a long time. Too fast a speed and too much or too little force will always burn out a drill no matter where it's made.
Take care of your tool and your tools will take care of you.
*So, you are saying we still employ "slave labor", we just don't have the diresct hassles or benefits, i.e., benefit: directly profiting (we indirectly profit), and hassles: all those nasty Amnesty Intl. commercials against this sort of thing, and having your name tagged up there with Kathy Lee Gifford....Thanks for the moral compass, friend!
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Interesting point Fred,Tom(that name can't be real)
It is my good fortune to be able to send my kids to what might be called a private school.Of course we are hit with constant fundraisers.A couple of years ago the school sent the kids home with a box of stuff they were expected to peddle door to door.Most of the products were made in china,pakistan,etc.All the big users of prison,slave,child labor etc.I sent the box back to the school and refused to let the kids peddle the stuff.I hardly think a kid in pakistan needs to subsidize my kids education.I will donate to the school over and above the tuition cost but I ain't gonna peddle prison produce.
Good Luck,Stephen
P.S. this was a religous school.Interesting how peoples morality usually extends only as far as their wallet.
*Double bingo ditto's Stephen
*I'm not sure the poor cutting of large holes with a single, final size bit is entirely related to bit quality. My machiist friends have always advised drilling in metal in stages from starter through finished size. I've experienced slow cutting with a single bit even with USA bits. I've found it's quicker and less fatiguing to switch through the sequence of bits than use just one.
*Without getting into the political implications....I was searching for a style of dowel/plug cutter that has a near continuous circular rim with a single cutter notch that I first saw in the Garret-Wade catalog years ago. They don't list them any more but the last back issue they could find them in showed a price in the range of $70 for 3/4". Found that size in Woodworkers Supply for $9.75. Made in China. And it cut quite a few white oak plugs just fine. The one high priced cutter would have to outlast 7 of these to make itself pay. And that's before you consider the time value of money on the up front investment as compared to sequential purchases of the lower priced one.I try to by American products whenever I can, particulary when they are the best quality, even at a modest premium. But 7x is hard to justify.There are some tools you can just look at, however, and tell they are made poorly from second rate materials.
*Crimony, Stephen. So, a private, religous school messes up. How probable is it that they just didn't consider what you pointed out? They, you, I; we all will make mistakes, sometimes huge ones too. But should that cast a shadow on the whole schism of their morality or ethics? Give 'em a break, point out their error and get on.
*I gotta go with FredL,Those poor kids in Tiawan are maybe making a bowl of rice a day. I know it sounds unreal, but that's reality. I don't want to save a few bucks at someone elses expense.I'll buy American when I can.I think Makita is made in the USA now...I think...Does anybody know?I once took one of those surveys at the mall and the guy asked me if I would still pay more for imported beer if it was made in the United States....Huh?Ed. Williams
*The one time I found myself needing to drill a lot of holes in steel, I got two bits and alternated them for each hole. I have no patience, and this allowed each bit to cool some before next use. This worked GREAT, way beyond my expectations. Both bits were still drilling like new at the end.Something like 72 holes in 1/8" steel, I think.Oh, and on the "Made in.." topic. I swear every product I have ever purchased that had a label reading "Proudly made in the USA" was crap. "Made in the USA", no problem, "Made in the US with pride", no problem. But that "Proudly made..." phrase has always meant junk. I won't buy anything with that label.Rich Beckman
*Rich,(1) Why do you think I pointed it out to them in the first place?(2) My wife also teaches at the school and yet even so I pay full price tuition.(3)This is a religon whose leaders make frequent,loud,vocalizations about how employers have a moral duty to pay a living wage to it's workers,that is one capable of supporting a family.(4) This school happens to pay its fully qualified and cerified teachers about 50% of public school wages(this is a living wage?)(5)I guess when all is said and done,it is the dedicated faithfull like my wife who are expected to put their money where their mouth is,not the religous leaders.And of course since I subsidize my wifes teaching "hobby" I also put my money where my mouth is(6) ask me later about the ethics of childrens sports teams playing with baseballs made in china and basketballs and soccer balls made in pakistan(child labor)I am of course a completely AMORAL individual, but then again,I don't claim to answer to a "higher" authority......Good Luck,Stephen
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Like many "Made in such and such country" component goods, where were all the components(electronic and plastic pieces, metal castings etc.) made? Kudo's to Stephen for working so hard at standing up for his beliefs. I would have sent them back because I don't particularly agree with sending kids door to door selling consumables, if I sent them back at all. I'd rather have them work for it (slave labor?). I'll let you know what I actually practice when my 6 week old gets there.
Chris
*Even if Made in China tools were not crap, wich they are most of the times, I would not buy squat from a rogue country that has invaded and enslaved another one (Nepal), uses slave labor as mentioned and comes up every year with a humongous trade surplus with the USA, for all the trinkets we buy from them, so that in effect we end up bankrolling their military development. That is, if they're not steeling the know how directly fromus.I think it is bad enough that it's almost impossible to find workboots NOT made in China these days.As someone said, God forbid we ever have to go to war with China, because we would have to go barefoot...I consistently refuse to buy Chinese (taiwan is ok) products, period.
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Guys ... Taiwan IS at least a democracy that doesn't shoot or imprison citizens who annoy it ... now China on the other hand ... I'm touched to see so much concern over this issue; dare I say it, a liberal streak among you. More liberal than "free trader" Mr. Clinton anyway (who is really only liberal in his interpretation of the word "marriage").
For too long I've sort of avoided dealing with this issue. To be honest, I kind of bought into the idea that people who pushed human rights just wanted to feel good about themselves and get attention -- pretty stupid but a seductive enough rationalization. It is VERY hard to avoid the "Made in China," especially I've found if buying kids' clothes or stuff. Remember the tenth anniversary of Tiananmen Square! The leadership are SOB's.
Try:
View Image
AI's Merchandise Site fails to mention where the T-shirts and such are made or by whom -- it would be, um, unfortunate, if the "free Tibet" shirt was made in China, eh?
*Tom Jefferson:Your message did not get through. You must need help.
*Makita has a plant in Buford, Georgia. Hitachi is also building product in this country (the 8 1/2 slide compound is built here) while Delta has shifted a lot of their product line to Taiwan, and in my opinion, their products and image has suffered for it.
*I don't recall charges on China using slave labor, I believe the charge was using "forced convict labor". They claim that they don't export items using convict labor - if true, that means that if you want to buy a genuine convict produced item, you will have to buy good old "Prison Blues" jeans made right here in the USA by prison labor. Of course, now that Oregon has passed a law forcing all prisoners to work, you might soon have a lot more to chose from...As an ardent foe of China on the Tibet issue, I am certainly finding it harder to avoid buying items that are not made in China. What ever happened to Thailand, the Phillipines, and all those other low wage countries? How is it that China has so managed to dominate the market for low-end tools?
*...well, I guess most folks know that the railroads in this country were built using primarily what amounted to slave labor, while "enterprising" individuals got rich organizing the whole works. So I guess nobody will be buyin' any tools that are transported by rail, huh? Working class people have always been exploited by the folks who control the money. It doesn't matter if you're talkin' here in the U.S., or anywhere else. - jb
*Well made point Jim.I had not considered that.Of course the canal systems like the Ohio and Erie canals predate the railroads and were built under similar tactics. So,in solidarity with the IRISH laborers,immigrants from my ancestors land,I will swear off using goods transported by Canal Boats.(I am sure my ancestors could have worked on the railroads or the canals,but they were too busy mining Coal in PA.Good Luck,Stephen
*I hope this isn't one of those "you're insincere if you're not a radical" arguments. We can take our boycotts one at a time.Still wondering whether our hit on the Chinese Embassy was really an accident... Certainly a way to send a message.
*In fact...we probably shouldn't use ANY tools...just in case! - jb
*Yeah, it discriminates against all those contractors without opposable thumbs. :)
*Actually I think it is very helpfull to be aware of worker conditions around the world.I don't think there is anything wrong with having your own personal boycott of corporations that don't meet your personal ethics.It is ,however, pretty difficult to be consistent at this in todays marketplace.My family refuses to buy NIKE shoes primarily to buck the trend and refuse to blindly follow michael jordan.Of course this has zero effect on NIKE, and the shoes we do end up buying are probably made in the same type of conditions,but at least we tried.The whole point of all this, for me , is to remind myself and my kids of how lucky we are to be HERE instead of some sweatshop in a 3rd world country.Luck is a much bigger factor in determining our standard of living than education or hard work.The luck is to be here instead of over there working 12 hours a day for $3.Good Luck,Stephen
*Stephen - as usual, you hit the nail on the head. Luck has played a large part in my life, and I am grateful. - jb
*Anything beats saying "I can't make any difference" or, worse, "I don't care."
*
A few days ago, I needed a 5/8" steel bit to bore a hole into some 1/4'' steel. Shopped all the local warehouses and hardware suppliers just to find that this particlar bit was no less than TEN BUCKS, wherever I went! I passed through town and saw a "Grand Opening" sign to a new Harbor Freight outlet, went in, and found an entire set of steel drill bits, from 9/16 thru 1 inch for $21.99. I purchased the set. The 5/8" bit performed well. My question is, are these tools and accessories (so mass produced) worth the price, or am I "geting what I paid for". Please advise.