I’ve been working with a potential customer who has turned into the joke of the town among all the builders. He told me that he started out with 8 builders but I think he talked to a lot more than that. Now he has it narrowed down to 4, with us included.
I gave him our final numbers mid week and he told me that we were the third highest. About 9 higher than the next guy and about 13 higher than the lowest. He said we were his preffered contractor but he just had to talk himself into the added cost. I told him that I hoped he was a good talker, and we both laughed. He said he would let me know Monday. I know the lower two and they’re respected builders so I’m not going blind against some fly by nights.
Sooo I was curious how I was so much higher because to his credit he was doing a good job of making sure everyone was bidding apples to apples. I looked over the estimate again and found a mistake. It would get us closer to the next guy but not less. I’ve decided not to tell him because if we are his preffered contractor we should be worth the extra dollar and we’ve got quite a bit of work signed up already. Besides I may need that money to buy aspirin and mylanta should we get the job.
Legal Disclaimer: The preceeding comments are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as professional advice. The reader of these comments agrees to hold harmless the poster, EJCinc, from any and all claims that EJCinc offered professional advice, ideas, or comments to the reader that may or may not have resulted in the damage, injury, or death to the readers property or person.
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"Legal Disclaimer: The preceeding comments are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as professional advice. The reader of these comments agrees to hold harmless the poster, EJCinc, from any and all claims that EJCinc offered professional advice, ideas, or comments to the reader that may or may not have resulted in the damage, injury, or death to the readers property or person."
Do I have to sign this thing before I reply? :-)
But semi-seriously, have there been any successful civil actions brought against persons offering free advice on the Internet?
Not that I know of.
I guess I was having a bad day when I put that there as a joke, and just left it there.Legal Disclaimer: The preceeding comments are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as professional advice. The reader of these comments agrees to hold harmless the poster, EJCinc, from any and all claims that EJCinc offered professional advice, ideas, or comments to the reader that may or may not have resulted in the damage, injury, or death to the readers property or person.
OK.
Under the circumstances you described, I'd leave the bid as is too. It's better to throw him a bone, if he comes back and asks for something to sign with you, than it is to tell him you found an error in your bid. Lots better.
Hope it works out for you, but this guy sounds like an A$$.
If he's going only by price, hold on tight for any change orders.
Sounds like he's wasting alot of peoples time. 8 bids?! Come on!
"Sounds like he's wasting alot of peoples time. 8 bids?! Come on!" I agree. That's a ridiculous number of bids. Major, major, major red flag in my book.John Svenson, builder, remodeler, NE Ohio
I'm "working" with a guy right now on an estimate for a 24'x32' cabin, roughed in and finished on the outside. He called EVERY builder in my area, and only three called him back, including me. He refuses to give me an idea of his budget, saying that he'll wait and see what the quotes will be, and then decide.None of that is that bad. What's bad is the guy wants price differences on:-poured vs. block crawl
-full 12/12 attic trusses vs. scissors vs. half of each
-steel vs. shingles (that butt ugly barn metal)
-a Bilco style basement door on his CRAWL space(?!) vs. a regular access
-one full length deck vs. two
-block chimney vs. no chimney
-log siding vs. vinyl
-cedar vs. alum. fascia
-log posts on the deck vs. regular 4x6
-"rustic" deck railing and stairs vs. regular treated lumber
-several different window and door gradesEven this isn't enough to throw me off. What really gets me is he adds all this stuff AFTER I give him estimates on the first options. (My truss supplier wants to kill him after quoting 6 different styles of trusses) The guy can't even meet me face to face, as he lives 200 miles away and isn't going to be in the area for 6-8 weeks. This means all he's going by is price. I prefer not to compete based on price alone.I need the work, but I don't think I'm gonna call this guy back.Great, huh?
Edited 3/15/2008 4:32 pm ET by True North
I'd go out of business before I'd deal with people like that... unless they were paying me for my time to price out all of those alternates.
Well, you can guess how many hours I put into this idiot.Not to mention that it's been embarrasing to call all my suppliers/subs with the changes he wants.How do I get suckered into this stuff after I vow not to ever do it again?
I think that providing an initial estimate is reasonable, and that most of us do that without charging. When the prospect says "OK, how about giving me a whole bunch of alternates?" then you have to say "That will take a lot of time, and I can't spend that time without being paid for it." Sometimes they tell you that you've got the job and they just need the info to make decisions, but at that point they need to start paying you, and you need to insist.
I could tell you what an idiot you've been to go this far with him, but the sad fact is you've done nothing I haven't done at one time or another LOL.It does sound as if you've reached the end of the line with this guy however..... time to cut your losses or have him pay for any further figuring (not likely)It never ceases to amaze me what some people expect for nothing, and if they get it, they just want more. For nothing that is.John Svenson, builder, remodeler, NE Ohio
"It never ceases to amaze me what some people expect for nothing, and if they get it, they just want more. For nothing that is."I think you're right, but if any one of the builders didn't want to go as far as this guy is asking them to, all he would have to do is say "no". If everybody offers free bids, why not get more than one?Our lumber supplier is pretty good to us. They have good products, very good service, and competitive pricing. As a result, they've gotten all of our business for about the past 2.5 years. If I call up and ask them to deliver ten 2x4 precut studs the next day, they will do it.I've asked them before if this practice is too much of a pain for them, and they always say no. I try to consolidate our orders so our invoices are at least $500 a pop because I assume it's hard to break even on delivery costs when we're only ordering $25 in studs. Still, they don't ever complain so when the estimate is just a little bit short, they come through for us.All this to say that if they needed to charge a $75 fee on orders less than $500, all they would have to do is institute that charge and they could avoid losing money on small orders. If a builder was pulling his hair out to submit a bid that will be compared with four others, he has the option to put his foot down. Many on this board have preached for many years about charging for Proposals. If more of us adopted that policy, I think our industry would be in a much better place (for us contractors, at least).Now, so I don't come off as preachy (maybe it's too late?), I will say that I struggle with the same thing. Just this afternoon, while driving to a birthday party for my niece I drove by a house where I proposed building a deck. I was driving our minivan so I feel comfortable driving by slowly a past leads house instead of my truck with our logo on the side.Sure enough, the deck that they were going to "hold off on because some unforeseen medical bills came up" was attached to their house. And to make matters worse, they used my design and the materials I proposed. So believe me, I know what it's like to ask yourself "don't those people have any respect for my time?".Ultimately, we do not charge for design and proposals on smaller jobs like decks, basements, or K&B work. I've found that I can turn out those estimates quickly enough that I don't want to ask people to pay for them. I know some on this board would disagree with that, but that's how we do it for now.I've written enough for now.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Thanks for the dope slap. I needed it. =)
I hope you charged for all that......
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WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
dont feel to bad i almost went broke one year by bidding new houses for free , plus no subs wanted to talk to me, Plus they shopped my numbers, It was my homeroom class in the school of hard knocks.
Put yourself in that buyers shoes.I understand your frustration with having to do multiple options because it is time consuming but your buyer also wants to buy the best house he can for his money. He can do that with a car, appliance and it's just a natural instinct to do it with the most important purchase of his year. Most of those items on the list can be mentally calculated in a conversation and verified later if the job is awarded to you. Or, you gotta sell a proposal package where you basically are offering your services as a consultant. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
The 9 and the 13 mean nothing without the context of the overall bid. In the context of a bathroom remodel those numbers are significant. In the context of a whole house (which, from your title, this apparently is) those numbers are less so.
I'd stick to your number.
Runnerguy
Leave it as is, as others have stated to many bids on this job! If you get it watch it very carefully.