Replies

1. 
   calvin | Mar 26, 2002 03:33am | #1

   What's the radius of those curves?  Does the cap lip over the top of the base? 

   Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.

1. 
   user-306759 | Mar 26, 2002 10:53pm | #3

   The radius is 11'8".  The base board is luan and 1/4" cherry plywood  (the flat walls are 1/2" cherry plywood).  The base cap is rabbeted so it covers the top of the plywood.  

   Thanks

2. 
   JerraldHayes | Mar 26, 2002 05:21am | #2

   Randy, inside or outside curves we generally approach them the same way. Where

   we change our approach to capping curved based depends on the radius of the turn.

   I'm in the midst of a remodeling of my companies web site and I'm pretty sure

   I have pictures that I can use to illustrate the whole procedure however I haven't

   gotten to work on the part of the site yet. Maybe I'll switch gears and work

   on that tomorrow so I might be able to help you out.

   I'll tell you riight now one method we use is steam bending although I have

   a quick and dirty set-up we invented for just the dimension size you are working

   with. I'll photograph it tomorrow and post it here.

   As for those different curve types I'll post a few pictures here so you can

   maybe see what I mean by the approach having to be different. (click the images

   to open larger views of the photos)

   #1-Tight Radius Base & Cap ( cap moldiing is routed from solid stock in

   a curve)

   View Image

   #2-Large Radius Base & Cap ( cap molding is steam bent)

   View Image

   Just so you know I have heard about contractors kerfing the back of a piece

   the dimension you are describing but I have never seen it done successfully.

   Like you say " I can bend the piece against the curved walls but the ends

   want to lift". Usally it will torque twist and turn or even split when

   done with that technique which is why we steam ours.

   So Randy, what are you trying do? More like #2 I think correct? I can have

   a picture of the steamer for you by tomorrow.

   Forum hint:

   Shift Click on Discussions to Open Them in

   a New Window!

   (It make them really easy to read just like the

   old days)

   

   ""The

   reasonable man adapts himself to the world;

   the unreasonable one persists in

   trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore

   all progress depends on the

   unreasonable man." -George Bernard

   Shaw"

1. 
   user-306759 | Mar 26, 2002 11:01pm | #4

   Jerrald,

   Thanks for your post.  My walls are similar to the second photo- I've done a staircase and a curved wall in a powder room.   The powder room is an inside 11'8" radius.  The stairs have a similar outside radius but a much smaller inside radius.  (Nothing like your first photo, though.)

   After the wood is steamed, will it hold it's shape?  I am looking forward to seeing your technique.

   Thanks!!!

   Randy

1. 
   JerraldHayes | Mar 27, 2002 12:04am | #5

   Yeah, I thought you were refering to a curve like photo#2 anyway but I thought

   I'd check. I just got done for the day so I haven't taken that photo of the

   steamer yet but I 'll go do that now.

   "After the wood is steamed, will it hold it's shape?"

   There a little bit of springback memory but for the most part yes. Although

   my own experience has also indicated that different species have different bending

   characteristics that take so trial and error getting used too but hey learning

   all of this is what it's all about right?

   What species are you using?

   I'll be back later tonight.Forum hint:

   Shift Click on Discussions to Open Them in

   a New Window!

   (It make them really easy to read just like the

   old days)

   ""The

   reasonable man adapts himself to the world;

   the unreasonable one persists in

   trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore

   all progress depends on the

   unreasonable man." -George Bernard

   Shaw"

1. 
   user-306759 | Mar 27, 2002 01:50am | #6

   Jerrald,

   I'm using maple base caps.  I don't know the lingo, but my caps have a more intricate profile than those in your photos.  (I'm guessing that it doesn't matter.)

   Thanks again.

   Randy

1. 
   JerraldHayes | Mar 27, 2002 03:17am | #7

   Okay Randy, Here's the steam assembly (click for the full sized photo)

   View Image

   You see what I mean by quick and dirty (an inexpensive too). It just some galvanized

   pipe and a few fitting.

   What we do is the bottom horizontal section of the pipe sits on top of a two

   burner portable Coleman Propane Stove and the the long section of pipe travels

   up and is help in place by a Black & Decker WorkMate (instead of leaning

   it against a lathe). You can divise any thing you want to clamp and hold in

   it place or to heat the water chamber but the principles remain the same.

   What we would do is take a piece of molding and drill a small hole in the end

   of it to attach a small wire to, We would then drop the piece down into the

   pile and hook the end of the wire over the opening in the pipe so we can retrieve

   the piece. It take a lot of steam and a lot of time in the pipe for the piece

   to get flexible and by a lot I mean it wa a lot more steam than I origionally

   expected so you'll just have to practice it to see what it takes. Ialso know

   the bigger the piece you want to bend the more steam and time it takes too so

   in the case of the project in the photos above I know my guys improvised and

   cut apart the full size molding and made into two smaller pieces the scotia

   and quirk in the drawing below and then did the installing in two seperate levels.

   They found it much fastrer and easier that way. You'll notice they stepped (off-set

   & overlapped) the pieces slightly so there would be no gaps to giveaway

   that it was really several pieces built up. The drawback to cutting apart the

   one-piece 1-5/8 x 3/4 cap that we had was the saw kerf to cut a piece of scotia

   free would waste the astragal piece it was cut free from and vice versa.That

   ment we needed twice as much of it as if we did it as one solid cap. We had

   a small 1-1/2 hp shaper on that project so making our own scotia and astragal

   wasn't a big deal but it is something to think about and consider.

   View Image

   One of the other things we did in some places too was instead of kerfing the

   back of the base was we used 2 layers 3/8 Flexible Ply (wacky board) and then

   glued foil backed veener to the face as I drew above. The veneer was stepped

   to provide "shelves" for the scotia and astragal to sit on or fasten

   too. That was the oly way to make the sharp base curves as in Photo

   #1 so we went ahead and tried it elsewhere too. Since there was a lot of

   curved base to experiment on we also mixed and matched the two techniques in

   places. For instance 3/8 Flex Ply with a 3/8 x 51/2 solid wood layer.

   One other thing about the steam set-up we had. It was a preety portable set-up

   and that's actually important because when you pull a piece out of the steamer

   pipe it takes only a few second for it to stiffen up so it's not something you

   can do in the garage and then run inside the house and install. If you can work

   right next to where you are installing the piece you'll need to template the

   turn and build a form to bend the steamed piece.

   It's also better to do it with two people and it's esential with longer sections

   ( just add longer pipe to the steam assembly for longer sections). And while

   we cap the short end of the assembly to force the steam up the long section

   of pipe to help keep the steam in the pipe ato saturate the piece we just use

   a towel so if the pressure does build up the steam can escape. You'll also need

   gloves.

   One other trick I found was for a few bends that weren't quite what I wanted

   them to be I painted them with water and then heated them with a hot air gun

   to help coax them in to place. That only worked on the smalled scotia and astragal

   pieces and not a all on the larger full size cap and I think only because the

   wood was white oak which has an open grain. Open grain woods like white oak

   ( sometime wants to splinter when bending), red oak (a pretty consistant bender)

   and mahagonay bend esier and faster than closed grained woods like cherry and

   I imagine maple like you're using ( I haven't bent any maple yet).

   Good luck. Any other ideas?Forum hint:

   Shift Click on Discussions to Open Them in

   a New Window!

   (It make them really easy to read just like the

   old days)

   ""The

   reasonable man adapts himself to the world;

   the unreasonable one persists in

   trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore

   all progress depends on the

   unreasonable man." -George Bernard

   Shaw"

   Edited 8/29/2003 4:42:14 PM ET by Jerrald Hayes

2. 
   user-306759 | Mar 27, 2002 05:46pm | #8

   Jerrald,

   Thanks for your post, but the photo did not load.  Can you try it again?

   Thanks,

   Randy

3. 
   JerraldHayes | Mar 27, 2002 06:00pm | #9

   Sorry about that Randy, those photos are being called from own company website and for some reason it seems to be down today. I'll have to call and find out what's happened.

   I'll load the photos as attachments that way they are on the Taunton server.

   Forum hint:

   Shift Click on Discussions to

   Open Them in a New Window!

   ""The

   reasonable man adapts himself to the world;

   the unreasonable one persists in

   trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore

   all progress depends on the

   unreasonable man." -George Bernard

   Shaw"

   
4. 
   user-306759 | Mar 28, 2002 07:13pm | #10

   Jerrald,

   Thank you very much!!! 

   Looks like I'm going into the steamin' business.

   Randy

5. 
   JerraldHayes | Mar 28, 2002 09:10pm | #11

   You'll find after playing around with it like we did that there are a lot of

   possibilites for other stuff you can do steaming. A while back on that Hands

   on History show on the History Channel I saw what I think was a show on boat

   building and they showed how really big pieces of timber (I mean really big)

   were steamed and bent so I've thought hey that would be really koool to try

   too so were always on the lookout for a project where we can try something bigger.

   Way before we did that project we I had bought this book FWW

   on Bending Wood and reading it was helpful in generating some ideas I had

   before I thought up "The Quick and Dirty Steamer".

   Also you should go up to the Main Fine Homebuilding site and use the search

   to check the Whole Site ( not just FHB) for "Steam Bending" and see

   what else they might have.

   Forum hint:

   Shift Click on Discussions to

   Open Them in a New Window!

   ""The

   reasonable man adapts himself to the world;

   the unreasonable one persists in

   trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore

   all progress depends on the

   unreasonable man." -George Bernard

   Shaw"