Has anyone out there used a Makita 5402NA 16 15/16″ circular beam saw? A local pawn shop has one that looks like it’s been used once or twice for $400. I can get it for probably $340-$350. I don’t have a big need for one, but I think it would be just the trick for LVLs and 6X6 posts. I have heard that the safety switch is hard to use without taking your left hand and depressing it. My wrist is in a cast and I couldn’t hold it to see for myself. Thanks.
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I use a Big Foot 10 1/4" saw for most of that kind of work and we have a Big Foot 14" saw that works ok.
There is a guy over at JLC who just bought one of those Miakitas. Go over to the rough framing site and do a search for that Makita and you'll find him.
Our fnish carpenter has one and used to do some beam work and he said it'll bind easily because it doesn't have a lot of torque, but I've read good things about the saw overall.
I've used that big Makita a few times on log and timberframe work and, as far as I'm concerned, there are better alternatives; I prefer to use some chain saw jigs I've made and the Prazi beam cutter has served me well, for a lot less money; and with the Prazi you can cut moderate radiuses.
I found the Makita saw to be somewhat unwieldy and, IMO, a bit dangerous (The Prazi is not for the timid either), and the large blade has to be used carefully and kept sharp....any large diameter, fairly thin-kerf saw, will turn into a wok if it overheats from binding or being forced when even slightly dull.
Notchman,
I can see using the prizi beam cutter on log homes but a timberframe? Chain saws leave a too coarse a cut. the Mikita if the blade is sharp leaves a fine finished edge. I don't even sand or smooth those cuts even when they show..
I know what you mean about kick at start up and the gyroscopic effect of that big blade. Plus that cheesy blade guard tends to bind easily which means I retract it by hand once I start my cut. so early on I have one hand on the saw and one hand holding the guard back..
I know a lot of folks think that a chainsaw leaves a rough cut, but, if the chain is very sharp and snug on the bar and you scribe the inside of the cutline with a utility knife to eliminate the splinters, I guarantee you I can make a cut as smooth as any circular saw.
I've made thousands of cuts on beams and logs this way, on my home and a bunch of others and, to me, that big Makita is all hat and no cattle (kind of like your friend, the Prez, AKA the "Windshield Cowboy.)" :-) (Sorry, couldn't resist!).
Of course, if one has deep pockets, the Mafell line beats them all.
And I have some salvaged 14" X 16" timbers that came out of a railroad tunnel that was built in 1919; the 22 1/2 degree cuts on the ends were cut with a 5' handsaw and are absolutely perfect.
Notvhman,
I don't know where you got the impression I like bush, but it's not true! The Mafells I've seen all need 220 volts. I understand they do offer a 110 version but I haven't seen one. If you look at my home you'll note all those acute angles and I can't imagine trying to use a chain to achieve them..
You claim that you can and without callin' ya on it can you make an end cut baby butt smooth? I mean ready to shellac or varnish etc?
I keep my chain morticer as sharp as possible but it's a rough cut tool at best. I wouldn't ever use it to finish the mortice pockets without slicks or chisels.. I would never use my chain saw to do a finish cut..
McKenzie,
I own one and have used it extensively building my timberframe for the past 6 years..
It'a an awsome tool but it is differant..
First to answer your question about the safety, it's never ben a bit of a problem to me..
What is a problem is the cheesy blade guard!
You learn to retract it by hand rather than attempting to shove it thru the normal way a safety guard works.. (especially at angle cuts)
One warning, when you first turn it on it has a serious kick and when running it has serious gyroscopic torque. Nothing uncontrolable but it will surprise you the first time I'm sure..
Another thing the blade turns at less than 1/2 speed a normal 7 1/4 inch saw does.. In fact it turns so slow you'll think it will stall out.. IT doesn't! I've ripped great big 24 foot long timbers at full depth and the sawdust is just pouring out the sawdust chute. That alone is facinating to watch! This great big neat pile of sawdust just pouring out the chute into a neat pile..
Don't even think of turning this beast!
Even a little sideways action will slow down or even stall that big blade.
The standard blade is OK but the carbided blade is what you need if you want it to do a clean cut. They both are the same price to resharpen as a normal 7 1/4 inch blade is.. because they have relatively few teeth.
Make sure any extension cord is 10 guage, It will suck every single amp out of a 15 amp circuit breaker and if you try to do big long cuts with say a 12 guage extension cord you will soon feel that cord heating up. When that extension is getting warm you are doing some serious burning of the brushes and commutator..
I have one and i hate it, the bigfoot is mucho better
bobbys
Which big foot? the little 10 inch or the slightly bigger 14 inch?
neither will cut as deep as the Mikita (6 1/4 inches)
I'll be the first to admit it is built pretty cheesy but it's been reliable as a tank doing some really massive work.
I can make 6 1/4 deep cuts thru solid white oak up to 24 feet long.. (not that it wouldn't rip longer but those were the longest timbers I used)
Relax Frenchy.... it's just his opinion. Just because it's different from yours doesn't mean you have to pound him into seeing things your way. I really don't understand why some guys get so defensive about their tool choices. Shoot, I've got a handsaw that will cut deeper than all three saws in question..... does that make it the best choice?View Image
LOL Man I wonder what will happen when I mention my 14" Ryobi beam saw. As others have said, there are other tools for the job, but mine will do what I bought it for , and for $50.00 I got my monies worth.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
dieselpig,
We need to compare the differances between equipment which is what I was trying to do. I mean I did admit that the Mikita is built kinda cheesy Sorry, if that came across heavy handed..
Your handsaw is fine if you've got the time and muscle to use it.. I bought one just for the occasion when one of my timbers was too big for the Mikita.. luckily the biggest timebr I used was a 12" x12"x 24 feet long..
It did take two passes to cut thru but they matched up exactly! ;-)
i have the bigger one but to be fair it may be the operator, Im used to the worm drive. I have a real old 10 inch skill i use if i have to rip If you like it thats great. I lent mine to a few carpenters and none of them liked it either but we are not everybody. I have a hard time believing one could cut through oak with it but i bought mine used maybe somethings wrong with it
bobbys,
I'll bet I've made hundred if not thousands of cuts with mine. thru white oak..and other hardwoods both green (easier ) and dry..
I'll be honest when I first fired mine up and made my first cuts I thought something was wrong with mine.. the blade turned so slow! (compared to my skil saw) (which I too love)! However when the sawdust pours out of that port in neat deep piles I realized just how decent a saw it was..
And like I said the blade guard is cheesy. I've also found out that if you aren't cutting straight do not attempt to curve the saw back onto the line.. with that great big blade swinging there is just too much side friction and you will stall it out.
Do not use anything less than 10 gauge extension cord!
If you read the charts based on currant draw that is the minimum size you can get by with. That sucker is working hard! A 12 guage cord will heat up and then you start to burn the brushes and commutator. Plus the standard blade won't remain sharp very long.. you have to spend the extra $100.00 for the carbide tipped one to get anywhere near the sort of life you'd expect.. the good news is that it costs the same to resharpen that big blade as it does to sharpen a little 7 1/4 inch blade..
If you are used to Skil saws the Big Mikita will shock you with how differant it is. once you are used to those differances it will impress you.. Consider the only real alternative is either a chainsaw device or the Mafell. Since the Mafell uses 220 volts and costs like 50 bijillion dollars that's not really an option..
Actually, what I would consider the best alternative for cutting large timbers accurately is one of those big 20" Delta/Rockwell Radial arm saws. Bevels, angles, rips....no problem.
A fellow contractor and I built a large timber frame barn about 15 years ago and he had one of those saws mounted on a trailer which could be quickly leveled up and long roller extensions attached. Counterweight on the saw so it didn't climb out of control into the cut.
I'd kind of forgotten about it until this thread began to progress.
There's still a lot of those saws around and they can usually be had pretty reasonably (a lot less than that stupid Makita! :-)
Most of them were used in industrial applications....some were 220 single phase....we had a couple in the mills I worked in that were 440 3ph.
They'd be the ticket if one was timberframing full time.
Notchman
Sounds interesting except,
220 volts is not always available, 3 phase usually isn't .
Second some of my timbers were damn heavy, 24 foot long 12x12's for example.
Humping them up there and then getting them back down to turn around and saw the other end would be a challenge to most people, I think.. Compared to hauling my Mikita around we're talking about a masive amount more time
I can't remember what that sort of saw was capable of sawing. a 20 inch blade will saw about 7 inches+or- So would it swing up over a too large timber?
We cut 8"X8" and 8"X12"with it in a single pass. Anything larger you'd have to flip over. The arm on those saws is 36" so you can cut some pretty acute angles.
Whenever I've been doing work with heavy timber or logs, I put forks on my skidsteer or use a chainfall.
Moving heavy wood, or steel, or anything else by hand often, as you well know, can take longer to rig than to put up, particularly indoors when there isn't even space for a genie lift.
As far as 220 VAC, my temporary service panel has a couple of 22O recepticals and, when working on someone elses jobsite, it doesn't take but a few minutes to wire in a 220 recep.
On the saw I mentioned, IIRC he had about 100 feet of #8 cable.
Notchman,
Cool, it sounds like he's got his solution..
As for building a timberframe I agree completely that a telehandler is called for .. it not only can put up those heavy beams but even in my tight yard I could move them around using it..
It's bizarre, There wasn't room for a skid steer there but I had my telehandler around 24/7/365
I could reach into the garage and snake out beams that a skid steer could never get to. plus as you get familar with it and it's capabilities you're using it for more and more..
Pick up a couple of 18 inch wide timbers, line them up, and cut top and bottom off in a single pass.. That way you know they are both exactly the correct length. Made a wonderful workbench.. Not to mention the ease which I was able to shingle the 27/12 pitch of my west wing roof.. 35+ feet above ground! Or setting timbers and panels 3/4 of the way across the house when I didn't have access to the side or front.. (56 foot plus 12 foot jib)
Thanks i got mine with a half dull blade but did not think the saw was worth a 100 buck blade , maybe i might try it if i pony up for the blade and not be cheap, I should know of all people about a sharp blade, its just it was so different i said WTF and gave up right away.
bobby's
the stock blade dulls quickly the carbide tipped one is about 4 times more durable.. I think rather than spending a $100 I'd take the blade in to be sharpened,.. it's a pretty cheap job because most places charge by the tooth and it really doesn't have more teeth than a 7 1/4 inch blade has.. $10.00 max..
what's a beam saw. can I see a pic of any one
It takes studs to build a house
I have the Makita and I like it. I bought it because we were doing large PSL work. The safety is challenging but doable. As frenchy mentioned there is a little bit of torsional kick when you first start it up. I find it cuts real well. My biggest complaint it the base is relatively small. I also own the 10" big foot and the Prazi. I do not believe the Prazi is very good product at all. I love my Big foot, but the help dropped it from the second floor and I have not had a chance to fix it yet.
Bruce
>>I love my Big foot, but the help dropped it from the second floor and I have not had a chance to fix it yet.<<
Messing up the bosses' saw is a good way to be looking for another job.
THats why I don't let anyone touch my Bigfoot. I would prolly divorce the old lady over that saw. Woods favorite carpenter
MattSwanger,
I hate to have you work with the people I have then.. I take cutting off the cord , dropping tools and other such equipment abuses as part of the cost of doing business..
Typically that's the approach most contractors I've worked with use.. As long as it's an accident and not deliberate and nobody gets hurtit's treated with a shrug and dig out the back up..
THats why I don't let them use it, so I don't have to get mad about it.
I paid around $500 for mine with the swing table and if you expect me to be happy about it being destroyed you are out of your mind.
A cord gets cut on it no big deal I can shrug that one off, whoever cut it is going to get harrassed about it. But that would be the end of it.
Too many times I have watched people carelessly drop my saws, bending the tables along with whatever other damage may happen.
Maybe if I sold skytraks I wouldn't care about my stuff getting broke. But I work much to hard to watch my needlessly wasted. LOL
Woods favorite carpenter
Edited 12/31/2007 4:31 pm ET by MattSwanger
Matt
Wrong brand but that's OK I don't sell them anymore.
Based on the income statements I've seen from contractors (and we needed tax records to verify claims) the average contractor made about three times what I earned. So don't give up your day job.. ;-)
As for breaking tools you haven't lived untill you see rare timberframing tools ruined because they weren't paying attention.. I had something they call a groove cutter.. Imagine a skill saw with a giant dado bit and you have some idea of this thing.. I mean it's 10 times cool.. you can not only do beautiful wire chases as fast as you can shove it across the timber, you can do relief cuts and some wonderfully creative stuff with it..
In one case they set the depth too deep and were making dado cuts in granite.. needless to say it ruined the cutter (which is no longer imported)
In another case I messed up and took my chain morticer deeper than the timber it was on It's amazing that they don't work so well cutting thru the steel table things were on ;-)
They dropped my Mikita saw so many times that I had restraigtening down to science, Early on I used to insist that I do all the work that involved timberframing tools. However at one point I looked up to see my helper standing waiting for me to finish this task before he could go on.. since he didn't know or understand the next step either I figured he'd be a waste of a 1/2 hours pay or I had to start taking these loses in perspective..
I would like to have a dado saw, I was and still am looking for a used one. Cutting birdsmouths in one pass would be sweet.
I probably wouldn't be too happy if something as rare as that would get broken.
Just to clarify a broken saw doesn't mean I am going to fire someone. I might get a little mad, but thats normal. My guys know when I get mad, I stop talking.
I just let it go, as you said. Accidents happen. Woods favorite carpenter
Mattswinger.
Well if you are interested I'll be done with my timberframing shortly and then I'm going to sell all my timberframing tools.
You can't believe how sweet this thing is.. a baby butt smoooth dado just about as fast as you can shove it thru the timber..
I mean I really got creative with it.. and it made doing this place a lot more fun when I could drag that out and use it..
I bought it from Timberwoof tools, same place I got all my timberframing stuff and I also bought every head they have available for it..
How shortly will you be done?
I have a log cabin job planned for spring, it got pushed back from last fall.
Some of the tools you are selling might come in handy. I'd really be interested. Woods favorite carpenter
Matt
Early spring late winter?
Email me when you are ready. It might take a week or so for me to get the money around.
I think I am looking for a chain mortiser, planer, that dado saw for wiring, and any hand tools. Slicks, chisels.
I have to remove 15-20 logs on an exterior corner of a log cabin and replace them. Woods favorite carpenter
I should not have brought it up, your post just makes me start gritting my teeth thinking about the sound the sound the saw make when it hit the floor.
Happy New Year.
Bruce
I know I would have been a little mad. Probably more than a little.
But accidents happen. If someone dropped it while screwing around that would be a different story. Woods favorite carpenter
There is another base you can buy for it. I believe you can buy a swingtable for it also.
Do you know who sells it? I bought the Makita from Timberwolf Tools (great folks by the way) and they were not aware of any improved tables.
Thanks for the info
Bruce
If you go over to the Timber Framers Guild site tfg.org I think, and check out the forums and specifically the tool forums, I think they have the info there.
I'll check too when I get home.
that's http://www.tfguild.org
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