Thinking of building an attachment for the backhoe for a moveable 20 ft high work platform, 500# or so rating.
Any good links to similar (other than those ‘worst case’ ladders chained to buckets!<G>) setups. Not production, no OSHA, etc. but dont need to reinvent the wheel either. I’d probably use some screw drive/fail safe attachments to electrically control the hydraulics from the platform.
Pretty sure Frenchy knows this right off the top of his head.
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Replies
You have seen how fast a catastrophic hose failure can drop a bucket? Pinholes are slow.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Like VaTom said - broken lines can give you a quick and unpleasant trip to the ground.
I've seen guys use these things with rough terrain forklifts and farm tractors. But I think they're a really bad idea.
The real risk in working from a loader bucket on a farm tractor is from the grapple forks! They tend to be at the wrong height & and not very soft.
BossHog,
rough terrain forklifts good idea! farm tractors bad..
the reason has to do with hydraulics..
All Forklifts and telehandlers need flow restricting devices to pass ANSI standards.. in the event of a total hose failure, (or someone knocks it off) the fluid can only escape at a fixed and controlled rate that will ensure surviability.
What exactly you you mean by "rough terrain forklift"?When I say that, I'm thinking of something that basically looks like a farm tractor turned around backwards. I've never seen one of those with any safety devices on them.When you talk about them, I assume you're thinking about something like DieselPig's machine.Art isn't talking about either of these things - He's just talking about a backhoe, which I'm certain has no safety devices on it.
The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it [Thomas Jefferson]
no safety devices on it.
Well, I can always tighten a C clamp on a hose for a temporary orifice <GG>
Whoops, better not say that, somebody will do that not realizing that the highest probability failure point is at the fitting.
AKA "oriental strand board" being taken seriously.
I can alway do what I did with the old JD that had a leaky cylinder - raise the bucket, then wedge a 4x4 under it to keep it up?
I can alway do what I did with the old JD that had a leaky cylinder - raise the bucket, then wedge a 4x4 under it to keep it up?
That works. Long as it doesn't fall over.
I've often used loader buckets as manlifts. Safe? Nope, but nowhere near that 20' height you were considering.
If you've got something stable enough, you could also safety-chain your work platform up to it. Or finish up that design for the all-purpose skyhook.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
VaTom,
I'm sorry, I need to give a little sermon here..The time you save by not going to the hospital is always more than the time it takes to do things safely..
If you've seen the accidents that I have you wouldn't be so cavilier about safety.. My best buddy lost his life (Indirectly) thru a fall from a ladder of less than 5 feet.. When he fell his crushed his ankle, complications from diabetes caused it to be amputated, later he lost his leg due to a simple bed sore recieved while recuperating, That depressed him so dramatically that his wife put him in a nursing home and shortly after admitting he died..
I've seen a life lost because someone tried to cheap out and straighten a bent fork with heat. I've seen Guys gimp around with busted bodies given security jobs as a form of charity because they failed to use proper safety devises..
Fall from 30 feet and you will survive , (probably) but you won't earn your living in construction. fall from 40 feet and you might not!
Because I recieve notice of all the accidents in construction (part of being a certified instructor) the things that happen almost always strike me as really stupid..
Take another few seconds to put this safety device in place.. use the right equipment, spend the required amount to buy safety gear. No building is worth a human. There is always a way to do things safely and the time you save by not going to the hospital is always greater than the time required to use the safety gear..
I'm sorry, I need to give a little sermon here..
Apropos of?
Fall from 30 feet and you will survive , (probably) but you won't earn your living in construction. fall from 40 feet and you might not!
Well, yeah, that was my point you're exagerating. But I was comparing Junkhound's proposed 20' to the 6' we've used. A fall from which can cause soft tissue damage which can be debilitating. Pretty sure I mentioned it wasn't safe.
Not many loader buckets will reach up 40'. Or even 30', for that matter.
That's why they make fork lifts.
Thought you should know. PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Thought you should know.
LOL, telling Frenchy (or me) that.
Yep, and besides, my 20 ft was with the bucket at 15 ft and a 20 ft working height.
Still my mommie is scarred whenver one of her kids gets on a ladder.
Grandpa died falling 15 ft off a ladder while painting a house in the 20's when mom was 4 YO.
But still, why go thru life afraid of everything, we are all gonna die somehow anyway.
junkhound,
I accept the fact that I'm not immortal. However Like most people I am somewhat reluctant to drop off just now <G>
Perhaps it's attitudes like yours that cause construction to have such a high injury rate..
In my youth I felt I could live forever and accidents always happened to the other guy.. maturity has changed that mindset..
"why go thru life afraid of everything, we are all gonna die somehow anyway."
My Dad uses that same line when he does something foolish, and it really annoys me.
I believe that using a line like that shows a complete disregard for those who care about you, and care if you're still around or not.
Do you want your Wife doing foolish thnigs and taking unnecessary chances? How about your kids? Or would you prefer that they're reasonably careful, so that they're still around for a long time?
I don't mean to come down on you too hard - I just don't like that attitude.
The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds, and the pessimist fears this is true. [James Cabell]
I don't mean to come down on you too hard - I just don't like that attitude.
Possibly, you don't want to come play here...
"And nobody got hurt"PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
My question is, "had you been doin' a little 'wine tasting' when you parked the Olds on top of the shed?"http://logancustomcopper.com
http://grantlogan.net/
It's like the whole world's walking pretty and you can't find no room to move. - the Boss
I married my cousin in Arkansas - I married two more when I got to Utah. - the Gourds
Surely you don't think anybody sane and sober would try that?
Hmmm... where do you park your surplus cars?
Remember, we do: "Hey, y'all, watch this..."
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Don't know if you ever noticed my mean left eye - thats where my face got torn off and skull broken into 37 pieces when I used the dozer to pull a tree with the FOPS off (hadn't gotten around to putting it back on after clutch maintenance). Spent 2 weeks in intensive care that time. DW thought I was dead when she saw the tree hit me. That was 1974. Still here.
Anyway, I do try to anticipate the worst case scenarios, just am not paranoid about it.
The kids do their own thing now, but they get a little anxious when I let the grandkids take some risks, there are other threads on overprotectiveness of kids.
Sincerely, thanks for the concern.
besides, my 20 ft was with the bucket at 15 ft and a 20 ft working height.
Oops, forgot that Ford was a little old for extend-a-hoe. Which is a fantastic option if you ever have the opportunity.
Not that I'm going for a ride on one.... Lotsa hoses on a hoe.
Glad somebody got the humor.
We all pick our risks.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Bosshog,
Rough terrain forklift is a whole catagory of equipment.. It may look as you say like a backwards tractor with a mast and forks on it or it may be a telehandler .
Either is required to have a flow restriction valve in it to limit the rate of decent to survibility numbers Per ANSI standards. Chop off the hoses with your broad ax (You do keep one in the cab of your pickup don't you<G>) and the rate it drops is controlled.
Other safety devices is a method used to keep the boom elevated in the event someone needs to work under the boom it could be as is the case on Ingersol Rand a simple chunk of steel bent in a U shape and painted red. Other manufacturers use differant methods. Actaully there are a lot of safety devices on modern equipment. Periodically ANSI reviews accidents and determines if additional safety standards are required..
"Rough terrain forklift is a whole catagory of equipment.. It may look as you say like a backwards tractor with a mast and forks on it or it may be a telehandler."
That was kind of my point. The term "rough terrain forklift" may mean different things to ifferent people.
"Either is required to have a flow restriction valve in it to limit the rate of decent to survibility numbers Per ANSI standards."
I've never seen such a restrictor. Or maybe I just don't know where to look for one.
The ones I've seen typically have signs on them saying that people shouldn't be on the forks. But those signs are generally ignored.
There's an example of what's commonly referred to as a "rough terrain forklift" here.
My theory of evolution is that Darwin was adopted. [Steven Wright]
BossHog,
The flow restrictor can be in a variety of places.. most frequntly its in the cylinder itself.. The test is that someone actaully takes a sledge hammer to the hose and actaully bashes off the fitting/hose.
Fluid sprays all over and the boom comes down but won't come crashing down ,er the rate it comes down is controlled..
A Lull is a rough terrain forklift, Boss. They are also called telescoping forklifts.
"A Lull is a rough terrain forklift, Boss."
To you it is. To others it may mean different things. Which was the whole point of my post.
You've been around here long enough to know that everyone uses different term in different parts of the country.
I have an existential map. It has "You are here" written all over it.
View Image
To others it may mean different things.
Boss, now you have piqued my curiosity. I Googled "rough terrain forklift" and saw Lulls, Gradalls, Ingersoll Rands, Skytraks like this one, and Cats and even more.
But they all looked essentially like this. Big wheels, low cab, engine and counterbalance in rear, telescoping boom.
I would like to see what the term means to others, beyond this very basic and widely used piece of equipment.
Did you see the link I posted to Frenchy?http://usediron.point2.com/Xhtml/Equipment/Details/P2/Forklift-Rough-Terrain/SELLICK/SG60PDS-2/153676/ViewEquipmentDetail.htmlThat's what we tyipcally call a rough terrain forklift around here. The "Skytracks", or "lulls" are all but unheard of. They're mainly seen on commercial sites.
If life was fair, Elvis would be alive, and all the impersonators would be dead.
Skytrak and Lull are brand names Boss, not the actual name for the piece of equipment. It's the equivalent of calling a farm tractor a John Deere regardless of what color it is or who made it. (You like the JD reference?) :)
I guess if we really want to get crazy specific here, I believe what we are all talking about is actually a 'rough terrain telescopic handler'. Frequently shortened to 'tele-handler' or 'RTFL' or simply...... a Lull. Even I sometimes refer to my Cat as a Lull but I usually do it because whoever I'm talking to will have no idea what I'm talking about otherwise. When talking about proposed jobs on the phone with people I'll often ask "is there room for my forklift?". You'd be surprised to hear of how many builders don't know what I'm talking about. To keep it simple is just ask "Will my Lull fit".
So yeah...... you've got every right to be confused.View Image
Are you talking about putting a basket on the loader end of a backhoe or on the actual backhoe end? I would be scared of the backhoe end basket.
Some guys mentioned hose breaks. But what about an actual man lift? Wouldn't they come crashing down with a broken hose too, or is there some sort of a safety stop?
nope, they have a fitting to not allow excesive flow should one lose a hose, same as on a chute on a concrete truck
EJCinc,
Yes there is a flow restriction in every hydraulic sytem on a man lift. designed that in the event of total hose failure the boom will come down in a controlled manner..
You can check and verify it's proper operation on every manlift by simply pulling the emergency release valve and that will demostrate it's rate of decent.. telehandlers and rought terrain forklifts can have the same test performed by simply shoving the lowering lever to the full drop position.. At that point it is coming down as absolutely fast as it's capabale of..
ANSI specs control the exact rate of decent but in all cases they are survivable..
Imagine if it weren't what a drop drom 150 feet would be like ;-)
junkhound,
The reason this is a dangerous idea is that telehandlers (forklifts) have check valves in them so if the hose should be sheared off it will come down in a controlled fashion, no loader backhoe I know of has such a safety device.. (would slow up hydraulic flow too much and cause overheating of the hydraulic fluid)
you already know i'd do it..... weld something up... on my forklift i use a basket i welded and a rope looped over the lever to lower it when i'm done... used old sissor lifts are cheap... i have an outdoor one that lifts 30 plus feet has a 7x12 platform with a 4ft extention (and i hang another 3ft one off that (that i welded up) so that i can pull it nose up to my loading dock and get past & over it (8ft) to the building... best $800.00 i ever spent.... u know i love my junk... and most prob isn't safe for anyone but me to use.... which is fine most just end up break'n my stuff anyway....
most of the safty features built into equipment is to save those that would perrish without it...
p
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