I am a hobbyist wood worker who occasionally wanders over to FHB from FWW when I am looking for information about home projects. This time I have some questions about repairing or replacing siding and windows. My house is about 15 years old and has Masonite T1-11 siding that is starting to deteriorate along with wood rot on some windows. <!—-><!—-><!—->
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I am looking for information on the best way to replace the siding and what to replace it with. I went to a local remolding show and stopped by most of the booths advertising siding and window replacement. James Hardy board seems to be a popular choice; however, there are other products that look similar. Smart Board, Certain Teed weatherboard and some other concrete fiberboard that is of course better than Hardy Board according to the guy selling it. Then there are various versions of vinyl, aluminum and steel siding. I am not interested in these products because only the north side of the house is having a problem. I wouldn’t want to go to the expense of residing everything if I don’t need to. <!—-><!—->
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I have talked to a few contractors and they all had different ideas on what to do. One says the old siding needs to come off and be replaced with Hardy Board. Another tells me the old siding needs to be left in place because Hardy Board does not have structural strength. If the old siding is removed they have to install steel straps to shore up the wall. They want to cover the side with house wrap and install the new siding over the old after cutting out the bad stuff out and replacing it with OSB or plywood. <!—-> <!—->
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The other issue is wood rot on windows. Once again the answer to what needs to be done depends on who you talk to. Some use PVC to replace the bad wood others claim PVC won’t hold paint and I should use a wood to fix them. There seems to be different types of PVC. Then there are the window replacement guys who want to replace all the windows and are giving me dire warning about how mold is probably growing in the walls and my house is about could be condemned. This advice was handed out with out actually coming out and looking at the problem. The last version are the guys who want to replace the windows with new construction windows because there is better “tape†and “flanges†to seal up the windows than they had when my house was built. <!—-> <!—->
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Sorry for the long post, what I am looking for is some information on what really needs to be done to correct the problems. I don’t want to waste contractors time asking them to come out and bid a job until I know what I am asking them to bid on. <!—-> <!—->
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Does anyone have experience in these areas and know what works and what doesn’t? Also, what about pricing? What is a reasonable price to expect to pay for this work. Of the two bids I have where they came out and looked at the house one is about three times higher and the lower bid seems to involve more work. The lower bid is for removing the old siding and hauling it off. I have heard number ranging from $3.00/ ft to $7 or $8 /foot for what seems to be the same thing. <!—-> <!—->
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Thanks for your advice, <!—-> <!—->
Bob T. <!—-> <!—->
Replies
How about a location in your profile, that might help, get some help with people near you!
I am in the Kansas City area.
Some body will come on to give you help, just bear with us!
I replaced mine with Hardi Plank. I like it pretty good. I took off the masonite and burned it, burns real good. Threw some hardi scraps in the pile, it became red hot, still didn't fall apart. Hardi isn't the easiest stuff to work with though.
First, there have been any number of discussions here about siding and windows - which are really two topics. Here is a recent thread (discussion) where we talked about a few different sidings (and mainly trim) and you can use the advanced search function here at BT to find lots more.
After that, Some random comments:
>> Masonite T1-11 siding << Yep - that is as cheap as it can get.
>> I went to a local remolding show and stopped by most of the booths advertising siding and window replacement. James Hardy board seems to be a popular choice; however, there are other products that look similar. Smart Board, Certain Teed weatherboard and some other concrete fiberboard that is of course better than Hardy Board according to the guy selling it. Then there are various versions of vinyl, aluminum and steel siding. << First be aware that when you select a siding that needs to be painted you are going the more expensive route simply by virtue that it has to be caulked and painted too. I'm gonna take an average size house that I build and give you an idea of how much I pay (new construction) for a few different things. I'm purposely not telling you the size of the house because 1) it is new construction which is very different than fixing something old, 2) different areas of the country are very different for labor costs. Anyway: new construction vinyl windows: $2200 - installed. Vinyl siding: $6000 for everything. Hardie plank instead with Miratec trim: $12,000, and then another $2500 for paint.
>> I wouldn’t want to go to the expense of residing everything if I don’t need to << That will look like pooch phew.
>> I have talked to a few contractors and they all had different ideas on what to do. One says the old siding needs to come off and be replaced with Hardy Board. Another tells me the old siding needs to be left in place because Hardy Board does not have structural strength. If the old siding is removed they have to install steel straps to shore up the wall. They want to cover the side with house wrap and install the new siding over the old after cutting out the bad stuff out and replacing it with OSB or plywood. <<
Likely but not for sure the T-111 is acting as the structural sheathing as well as the siding. That is part of what makes that method the least expensive. If that is the case, the guy is right that if the structural sheathing was removed metal straps or something would need to be installed to brace the house. In most area the bracing is only required for 4' on either side of the corner and then every 25' but your requirement could be more if you live in a seismic or high wind area.
>>The other issue is wood rot on windows.<< OK - you can either fix the old ones or get new ones. If you fix the old, PVC replacement material will hold paint just fine as long as you use 100% acrylic paint. The material is expensive though. If you get half decent new construction windows they will be more energy efficient and that in itself will make a difference you will notice. With new construction windows, you start with a clean slate. Based on the budget indications you have given thus far, vinyl windows might be the way to go. Some people don't like the look, and you are pretty much stuck with the color - usually white or tan.
>> The last version are the guys who want to replace the windows with new construction windows because there is better “tape” and “flanges” to seal up the windows than they had when my house was built. << He is right - with replacement windows you are often keeping the old window frames which you already said are rotting and then the seal between the frames (jambs) and the house would still be in question. If the existing sashes (movable part of the window) are rotting, it might well be best to just go ahead and replace the entire windows. New windows will be sealed around the perimeter better.
>> I don’t want to waste contractors time asking them to come out and bid a job until I know what I am asking them to bid on << THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THAT. That is one of the major reasons why I prefer to build new homes rather than deal with existing home owners. Many just have no idea of what they are getting into, and then just go for the cheapest price.
>> I have heard number ranging from $3.00/ ft to $7 or $8 /foot for what seems to be the same thing.<< is that per square foot of exterior wall or what? Really you want a complete job, - trying to do by the foot estimates just gets you in trouble unless it is a very simple job like maybe fencing. Those guys were probably just throwing some #s out there so you wouldn't have people come out expecting to get something for $800. Anyway, I think you are the right track as far as finding out generally what you want so then you can come up with some kind of scope for the project so you can try and be sure each contractor is bidding on the same or similar project. Be aware that sometimes the cheapest guy is also the one who is not going to do a good job. How often do we hear stories about someone who hires the leas expensive or close to it, and then is unhappy with the end product. The buyer has to take some responsibility for that too...
At this point, some of your statements that lead me to think that you aren't ready to spend really big $$$ so I'd say this. Get a company to come and wrap up the house with house wrap or tar paper over the T-111 sheathing, replace the windows with new construction windows and seal well with flashing and tape, (be sure the new windows come with integral J-channel) and install vinyl siding - if you would be all right with the look. The fascia (board the gutter(?) is nailed to) would be wrapped with metal, and the soffits (under sides of the eaves) would be covered with ventilated vinyl soffit material. Some variations on that might be to get replacement windows and wrap the existing frames with metal (after you fix the rot with epoxy putty or whatever).
If you really want to have a painted house, Spend the extra $10 or $15k and have house wrapped, install Hardie plank (or one of the other cement board sidings - they are all similar, and have the trim done with Miratec or some other composite type material with a respectable warranty.
You can save some money by re-doing the interior of the windows yourself using your wood working skills etc.
If you have gutters, add another $1k or so for replacement of those.
Again though, let me say that I'm a new construction guy - not a fixer.
Lastly, why not post some pics - of the problem areas, and a few whole house shots, and maybe a few close ups of the bad spots.
Edited 3/2/2009 8:24 pm ET by Matt
I'm in almost exactly the same boat as the OP. My house is currently sided with sheets of masonite trimmed out with 1x4s which gives it a Tudor-ish look. I'm thinking of using some HardiePanel w/Stucco finish to replicate it. I don't want to replace with steel/aluminum/vinyl, as I just don't like the look.
I have a lot of questions similar to the OP, but don't want to hijack your thread. :-) The only thing I can add at this point is that Hardie says their HardiePANEL product can be used as a shear panel. Sounds like you're looking more at their Plank lap siding product, but I suppose it's worth considering.
After receiving one absolutely crazy bid from a national siding chain and getting ZERO callbacks from local contractors, I'm leaning very strongly towards doing it myself over the summer. Not looking forward to that, but it sure would save me a lot of money.