Customer that I’ve done alot of work for. (They pretty much are exclusive to using me for their carpentry.) is putting a budget proposal together on a cost plus job. I Gave them some numbers for budget purposes on my labour, and now they want me to make a detailed material list. I already gave them a high number that they can use strictly for budget use. But I guess now they want accurate numbers because the client has a tight budget.
It’s not a huge deal, but still means I’ve got to sit down for 2 hours for something that may not even happen, Which is always annoying. Should I think about charging for this sort of thing?
I’m working off sketches and photos for a formwork and garden structure job.
Replies
Then they can beat you down on each line of your list. I'd jump right on that. Ha!
That sounds like they want you to do their work for them.
Say sure, for $X/hr - or set a fee for doing lists, $250-400
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Be perfectly honest with them.
Explain how much time and effort goes into making a materials list. Make them realize that it is part of the actual job...it's part of the billable time you would spend while actually doing the project.
If they were to bring a set of plans (or sketches and photos) to a lumberyard, they would be charged for the work-up. And I'm doubting a yard would accept sketches and photos. Certainly wouldn't give them any guarentee as to accuracy.
Short of...."you're going to need about two dozen 12' 2 x 10's..25 sheets of 3/4" plywood...etc., etc." to get them in the ballpark, I wouldn't do it wthout being payed.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Pp, Qq
Thanks all. The mr nice guy side of me, felt obligated because I have gotten a lot of work for them in the past. BUt you guys are confirming the business side of me that is slowly coming around.
Sounds like they feel it might be less expensive for you to provide the detail work then for them to handle it in house. I think I would explain to them all costs associated and give them a figure for your time. Even if you don't make a killing it will still pay you to do it and I bet they don't ask often or maybe even again. DanT
yeah...I have a bit of history as I made the transition from being employed to learning how to run my own business, of giving away my time.
And as a full time single dad of two little guys, leaves me very tired. Bad bad bad.
thanks for input View Image View Image
what I've done in the past.
on smaller projects.
after I've already given the "total" ...
is provide a breakdown ... listing "list price" plus mark up for everything.
I include everything down to the last nail and inch of caulk.
then happily hand the break down over with that broken down total being higher than the lump sum total I've bid the job at.
I also include a charge for the time to prepare the first bid and the breakdown on the new proposal.
I've done it a handful of times over the years ... so far we've all agreed the one lump sum proposal was the way to go.
Might not work for everyone ... I'm not above insulting someone to get them to see my point. It's a fine line ... it's all in the delivery. Shake them up then settle them down ... all real quick like.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
I think that is a pretty good tactic. I will remeber that one.
"I'm not above insulting someone to get them to see my point."
Ummm, we knew that already. :-) DanT
I think that's something I gotta get back to.
last coupla "problem jobs" have all been on jobs I started trying to "be nice".
think I have less problams when I'm more "me".
probably lose a few right outta the gate ...
but the ones that sign go way smoother.
bidding two at the moment with no mercy ... so we'll see how that twisted logic works out.
and again ... it's all in the delivery ... belt loops ... that sorta thing.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Great idea Jeff! Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I would do this for a good customer. With a smile.
I do everything with a smile.
I should mention that on the last "tight budget" job I worked with them on. I was pressured into building a garden arbor, that ended up being a $1,700 item that I commited to a grand on. My laborer made more than I did to build that thing. PLus I designed the whole thing( detailed drawing I drew up myself at night, after putting my boys to bed.) Along with fullmaterial list, all at no cost because it was on a tight budget and I felt obligated.
I don't mind the big budget jobs I have done for them. Engineered drawings, Yard does the take off - I just do my part, I've made some good money on them. But these smaller champagne jobs that she tries to do on a beer budget just kill me.
a lot of their jobs have won awards. One job I made very little on, ended up on the front page of the Real estate weekly all over B.C. Their name was all over the place, but not one mention of the dilligent carpenter who built the showpiece at no profit, becuase he knew it was a tight budget and wanted to please.
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Edited 3/26/2008 9:23 pm by alrightythen
Edited 3/26/2008 9:25 pm by alrightythen
Quit getting suckered by the "tight budget" routine. It works great if your on the paying end but your on the selling end. When someone says we have a tight budget, thats your clue to say, "great, what is it...that will save me from wasting a bunch of time figuring....I usually can tell immediately if I can do it or not.". Then, shut up. Watch them stammer and finally say "well we just want you to bid it...we can't give you the numbers". Then, you get to reply "well, I $1000 on my last "tight budget" so I'd rather not bid it. Then shut up and go back to work. If they want to work on tight budgets, the business has to benefit both...not just them. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I told them, if customer has such tight a budget they can get rid of all the steel in their concrete work.
I also did up the list and let them know, next time I need to charge for my time to do so. They were fine with that. View Image View Image
No one ever put steel in the concrete in MI. Except for the first four feet of the basement overdig. Concrete does just fine on driveways and walks and porches without steel. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
We use steel in every job View Image View Image
A lot of folks do. It might have something to do with subsoil conditions. I just don't see the need for it unless you want semis to drive on your driveway and patio. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07