I’d like to purschase a break for bending copper flashing and the like but don’t know what to look for in features. Price isn’t a concern. Who makes the best model and where can I purschase one? I live in Pittsburgh, PA.
thanks,
UBC
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The house copper expert is "seeyou (CU)". Hopefully he'll see your post soon.
I'm sure SPHERE'll be here any minute if CU isnt
Be bent $%^%$#$&#
andy
The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..
I'm assuming you're looking for a portable brake. Tapco and Vanguard are both good brands. If you're bending anything thicker than 16 oz copper, a portable brake won't last long. I get about 3-4 years of daily use out of a standard duty brake, with yearly rebuilds.
I've got a Tapco Max that we have mounted on a trailer. It's almost too heavy to move from jobsite to jobsite loading it on truck racks, etc. The lighter the brake, the easier it is to move, but the harder it is to keep in tune, especially with copper.
I do most of my bending on a shop brake. Weighs about 2500 lbs. I think mine is about a 1963 model "Chicago" brand.
I've also got a 4' Tennsmith "finger" brake that we've boomed up onto the scaffold on certain jobs. A machine like this is much more versatile if you don't need 10' lengths.
Don't buy a used portable brake without trying to bend what you're going to be using most of (ie: 16 oz copper). There's lots of "sprung" brakes on the used market.
Most roofing supply and siding supply houses can order brakes for you.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/browse/-/3116121/ref%3Dhi%5Fi%5Fbra%5Ft%5F1/104-1358854-9436766/104-0483315-4268746
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0006H6DH6/qid=1128151459/br=1-14/ref=cl_tr_br_cl//104-0483315-4268746?v=glance&s=hi&n=3116121
http://www.tennsmith.com/3_handbrakes.html
Birth, school, work, death.....................
I want one too! The Max only bends up to 24ga galv, which is a notch above flashing gauge, not as heavy as you might want to go sometimes. I had fascia gutters made out of 18ga galv and they're very substantial. If you fall from the roof and you can get a hand on one of those... yer saved.
> There's lots of "sprung" brakes on the used market.
No, I only have one, and I'm not selling it.... ;-)
-- J.S.
I actually thought about you when I was typing that. Where's those pics?Birth, school, work, death.....................
> Where's those pics?
I have them on a CD now, and should try to find time to get them downsized and compressed. Things are a bit busy, as we're in the process of selling the place. My wife's finally had it with endless remodeling. Attached are two that we took for the real estate agents.
-- J.S.
OK, it seems to only take one attachment at a time. I did get LADBS out on Tuesday for the final sign-off on the roof. The inspector liked it.
-- J.S.
Edited 10/6/2005 8:36 pm ET by JohnSprung
Looks great, John. Is the ridge vented?
My wife's finally had it with endless remodeling.
What are you gonna do with your spare time?Birth, school, work, death.....................
Thanks. Yes, the ridge is vented. It's sort of based on the CDA's design.
-- J.S.
we have a 10'6 VanMark ( model 1060 )... bought it new for $800 in '84... we used to bend 26 ga. galv.... it bends 16 oz cu...most of our work is alum. coil stock..
http://www.southern-tool.com/store/van-mark_mark-I_brakes.html
this year we bought a new front top for it so it can take all of the new accessories
VanMark... TapCo... all good national names.. find a local dealer.. the freight is bigtime on units like this
Mike I see you have a Vanmark, most of my bending has been with the tapco. Question I have is, that I here you can get a tighter hem with the Vanmark. As alot of times I prefer to put a hem in the metal, for strength and appearance. Have you any wisdom to shed on this,as inquiring mind needs to know.
thanking you in advance
I can share a trick we use on site...in copper. Fold your hem ( say a 1/2") as tight as you can, and instead of clamping it closed with the jaw, remove the Pc. from the break, and position it above the closed jaw, and raise the lower one to pinch it shut using the closed jaw as an anvil.
I oughtta take a pic if I havn't explained well enough.
It was good to have met ya at Cal's.. Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
I oughtta take a pic if I havn't explained well enough.
Please.
After perusing SeeYou's (or cu or whomever, Mister Green) link, I realized one of these was in my future. Before the next set of windows gets built. They even showed the drip rail I just spent a small fortune on, as an example of what you can do.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
I dunno, his break does the Lions share of our work.. a behemoth..what we do on site is childs play.
I'll try to remember to show a sequence of our site method in pictures..but it really is just using the lower jaw as FAR up as it will go, to close a hem that was started in the conventional way as far as it would go. Basically, just using the upper jaw in a way it was not intended to be used..(G). If I break the break, we both might be buying one..LOL.
I would NOT try to close a hem by the clamping force alone of the Upper jaw , unless it was that crappy alum flashing that is like thick fishwrapper stuff they sell at Lowes. I think it would trash the break after awile mashing copper back on itself, using the clamping action...thats why we do it thisaway.
All of those diamond shingles, are just 12x12 sq's, with two edges HEMMED AND KICKED, and two raw...and a zillion poprivets and blind nails.
We also refer to an open hem as a lock when another pc. needs to be engaged and either soldered or hammered flat..but I think you know that..that is for the other readers. Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Don't overestimate my knowledge. Mostly I know how to use a stomper. I borrowed a brake once, around '71, to make a new bike seat. We used something of the sort to make 90º bends, up to 3' wide when we sheathed the last place with copper, but it wouldn't do anything tight.
Oops, it was Mike's link that showed this and really got my attention:PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
> Basically, just using the upper jaw in a way it was not intended to be used..(G).
What you describe in message #13 is actually what they say to do in the Tapco instructions. Using the clamping action of the brake to hem is for the big shop brakes. Still they use the term "heming handle" for the ones that close the jaws.
-- J.S.
INSTRUCTIONS? Who reads instructions? LOL
Cool, then i guess it is OK to do and not worry about breaking it! Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Money don't talk, It Curses
(the other Bob)
That's the only way I've ever done a hem. Around here we call it a "smash".
Thanks for the tip, I'll give it a try. If all goes well with a job I put a bid in, a break purchase is going to be in the mix. Just have to decide which one.
It was also a pleasure meeting you at Cal's hope that flesh wound has healed up good for you. And the home project is progressing along. But heck if your like me when I got the time, I don't have the money, whenI got the money I don't have the time.
the new jaw gives a much tighter hem than the old one, even when it was new
maybe CU can post a pic of his technique..
we're ham & eggers compared to those guys
here's one of our typical flashings ... this one is a breakflash with a hemmed bottom
View Image
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 10/7/2005 5:31 pm ET by MikeSmith
If that still has a cut edge vs. a folded edge, we call that a kick..a hem is where we or Cu actually makes a doubled up edge, with no sharp cut edge. Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
that's a hemmed edge.. about a 3/4 hem
View ImageMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Ok, I see. I was more familiar with Cu's work..3/4 wastes Too much copper..LOL. He can get an eighth or so.
Just saw his post..ok. we are all correct.
I hope when theold codger wants to quit, he gives the BIG break to me and Dale..(G) We just poured 27 yrds of crete today for Dale's shop..30x60..he'll be wanting a serious break soon I think. Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
hope when theold codger wants to quit, he gives the BIG break to me and Dale..(G) We just poured 27 yrds of crete today for Dale's shop..30x60..he'll be wanting a serious break soon I think
So we gonna turn this around, and I'll get back on the roof and you guys can stand on concrete all day?
Hell, I can't get the big brake out of the shop without taking out the shear ( it weighs more than the brake) and tearing down the copper rack ( it's got about 2 tons in it right now) and the rest of my center work area. I'll sell it to you for a measly .....................
Birth, school, work, death.....................
LOL.
I am sure we can figgure something out. (G)
BTW, we're good for all day Monday. Take a break this weekend. Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Hijack_ I just submitted a bid yesterday on a slightly bigger (but less grand) than the one you're on. Just got the callback a few minutes ago. Wants copper gutters included (this house is also 6 years old and has one of the worst roofing jobs I've seen recently, but the aluminum gutter job is excellent, so I had planned to save them).
You up for a bunch of fiber cement siding work in addition to the roof? There's lots of masonite siding on this thing, and we'll have to destroy most of it. It's jammed right into the shingles.
Had my final run thru with our buddy where you fixed the beaded ceiling. He appologized for being such a basterd and asked for some extra T&M work. "Do it and send me a bill, I know you'll be fair" was what he told me. "Pay up on the contract and I'll be even fairer" is what I replied. He's geeting "Leafguard" gutter installed and the LG guy was clueless on how to make them work with copper roofs. I showed him what needed to be done (piece 'o' cake) and got a hardone. Apparently, they've got some troubles where they've installed that stuff under metal roofs and it won't work. They want to hire us to fix thier problems. Added job security for Josh.
Dale said the concrete went fairly well.
I should have emailed this, but got on a roll and here it is.Birth, school, work, death.....................
Yeah man..fiber cement.I bought the MAX gun just for that, you have the nails in the garage.
Tom wants me to bid on some bookshelves and a coffered cileing too..don't know if I can fit it in..I gotta keep up momentum on my place too.
Dale said "Fairly" well? He is showing his lack of crete exp. It went REALLY well. Good pour. I bet hoses 'A" thru "d" will still be finishing for another 1/2 hour. Unless they broom it and call it a day. Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
That's pretty much what my aprons look like. I do as much as I can on the shop brake ( I can hem about 1/8" and do reverse bends as close as 1/4" where on a portable brake, the hems need to be about 1/2" to close and reverse bends are a minimum of about 3/4"). I'm not sure what Duane's describing since I haven't used the portable brake in 3+ years. I'm getting old and I forget.Birth, school, work, death.....................
> I here you can get a tighter hem with the Vanmark.
I have the 10'-6" Tapco Max, and haven't used a VanMark.
But given the loose sheetmetal strip you bend against and the funny plastic strip that shifts the work when you close it, doing accurate work on a Tapco is hard. If I had it to do over, I'd go with a VanMark. It's probably better or equal, given the extreme difficulty of doing worse. ;-)
-- J.S.
John thanks for the reply, it kinda confirms what I heard from buddy that has a tapco