mimic the round over edge of p.pine trim
So I’m trimming out a house in BC (actually two), using 1/4, 1/5 and 1/6. One house is new construction, the other built in 1896. Here’s my problem – all the window returns are 1/2″ too short to meet the drywall… Why can’t window companies sort that out? Anyway…
So what I’ve been doing is creating another trim line on top of the return using the primed pine to meet the same plane as the drywall. Voila – window gets cased.
Up to now I’ve been ripping the two factory edges off a 1/4 and using that, basically junking the rest of the board – too expensive.
Now what I need is a way to take my little 1/2″ sticks and round over the edge so the edge matches the casing. I need this because the new extensions have the same 3/16 reveal as the rest of the house.
I can’t find a router bit that does it, and using my palm sander followed by a custom made hand sanding block is a bit slow and not the factory edge I need. Any suggestions?
Stay Dry out there….
Replies
I use a Radi-plane, a simple pull tool I call a carrot peeler ( I need to get apic of that) or an 1/8th router bit in a trimmer.
Some wworking stores sell a set of simple push/pull corner radiusers, you just ain't looking hard enough.
The main one I use is like a section of 1/2 round pipe, with a groove filed in it. You just drag it along the arris and it peels off the sharp edge. Slick as snot. Use a chainsaw file to resharpen it.
like this one
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Edited 4/21/2009 11:13 am ET by Malo
A little late, but I'd have set up a 1/4 roundover bit in the router or router table, and ran the board through before ripping the 1/2" thick strip. If you're saying you can't find a 1/4" round over bit, you're not looking very hard. Get away from the big box's and local hardware stores and find a local woodworking supplier. They should have round over bits in 1/4", 3/16" 1/8".. etc.
~ Ted W ~
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I'm working hard here to translate the British Canadian language here...
"trimming out a house...One house is new construction, the other built in 1896"
Do all your houses up there multiply once every hundred years and clone themselves?
"a house" is singular.
"using 1/4, 1/5 and 1/6."
That is pretty thin wood to use for trim, esp the sixth inch stuff, but maybe wood is getting scarce up in your neck of the woods. Or do you mean 1x4, 1x5, and 1x6?
"all the window returns are 1/2" too short to meet the drywall"
Why not cut them 1/2" longer? Or are you talking about extensions?
If all my assumptions are right in translating, you need to order your windows with the right size extension jambs, but it is not hard to make extensions. We work on almost all old homes and make our own extension jambs on most of them. You need a planer or joiner and a radius plane. The later can be had pretty inexpensively. I have a hard time imagining a professional trim carpenter not having all the tools mentioned here. The wood you are throwing away would pay for them in short order.
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Edited 4/21/2009 1:09 pm ET by Piffin
Piffen.This ain't a pol thread and here you are cherry picking. ;)He wrote: <<<<< I'm trimming out a house in BC (actually two)>>>><<<"a house" is singular.>>>> I know that you, all all the the people on BT, wouldn't criticize someone's typing skills. <G>
Barry E-Remodeler
You're right. I was feeling grumpy and let it show. I was out of line and apologize to him and everyone else.
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hey, I'm one of the original Grumpy old Men...just wish I knew Ann Marget happens to all of us, especially the older I get
Barry E-Remodeler
Had just come in dripping cold wet water from tending to someone's stupidity. I'm a hero now, but I'd rather have stayed warm and dry in the first place.
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you need to order your windows with the right size extension jambs
My present guess is that he was literally hired only for the finish trim work, and that all of the windows are already orderd and installed.
I suspect that he is matching 1896 details in one house to newly-installed windows; and possibily, has been asked to recreate the same window trim in the brand-new building. (I'm thinking, perhaps, a sub-divided lot, or a MiL house on an extant lot; also I'm thinking this is Owner-as-GC, too; with OP hired to the one task of window trim.)Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Yep, you need a radiusing plane. I have one like this:
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I have that plane as well---- I don't use mine near as much as I thought I was going to, LOL
Stephen
Mine was actually a gift. I've used it a half-dozen times (which is a lot, considering how little woodworking I do), and probably would have used it a couple of dozen more if I'd remembered that I had it.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -John Kenneth Galbraith
I've had one of those for about 10 years now, and used it maybe twice. It's almost never the right amount of radius.Steve
They come with different radii. But generally getting a precise radius isn't critical.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -John Kenneth Galbraith
Hi Guys,
Thanks for all the suggestions. I tried a 1/4 round-over - not the results I need. I guess I'll order a 1/8 and 3/16 from Lee Valley - I'm 2.5 hrs from a big box or any box for that matter. Not likely I'll be going the hand tool route.Piffin? Really? That was your input? Weak. But I accept your humble heartfelt apology cause I'm a generous, likable guy. How about you start the first donation to my jobsite radius plane?But to follow up - On the new house I am the lead carpenter and I know the GC ordered the correct extension. I think the problem is window companies are not calculating the layers of waterproof membranes that are attached to the RO. If I installed the windows flat on the ply - no prob.On the old house - Just there to pick up the pieces that someone else dropped. I need a camera crew - I showed up in Nov to install an exterior door - been there ever since; in the last three days I've torn down the living room ceiling and ripped off a deck (both "renoed" last year by the previous HO). And just so you fellas know - I'm only four years deep into this trade - I'll be asking more questions...
I'm a guy who, like Piffin, has gone over the top here on BT and come back to apologize.Yes, he's grumpy a lot of the time, but he shows a sense of humor, too (most of the time), and you couldn't ask for a more experienced, BTDT voice.My recommendation is to take the bathwater with the baby, and blow him a kiss.Good to hear that you're working, and I hope we'll all be talking with you more!AitchKay
Kisses I can live without.
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"I know the GC ordered the correct extension. I think the problem is window companies are not calculating the layers of waterproof membranes that are attached to the RO. If I installed the windows flat on the ply - no prob"That tells you that the GC did not order the extensions right. It is not the job of the window company to guess how much build out will happen on th ejob. It is their job to make the jambs + extensions the size ordered. The GC could have calculated that extra 1/4" when he ordered, but he didn't.
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Oops, my cut-and-paste in post #15 left out the rest of my post! I'll try again:
********
Your MO so far seems fine for the most part -- that’s pretty much what the rest of us do, but...
“Up to now I've been ripping the two factory edges off a 1/4 and using that, basically junking the rest of the board - too expensive.”
We’d rip those factory edges off, just as you did, but then we’d clean up the edges of the remaining board, and do it all over again, until nothing usable remained. A block plane and maybe some sandpaper is all you’d need for this, but a lot of us have graduated to using power planers, jobsite jointers, etc.
And if we need 1/2” jamb extensions, we start with 1/2” stock -- less work, and less waste.
As for the roundover, I have purchased router bits in 1/16", 1/8", 3/16" radii -- and on up from there to at least 1 1/2" radius, so I know they’re out there. The little ones are the most appropriate for jamb extensions. 1/4” and 3/8” radii are often used for casing edge treatments, and radii larger than that are probably most often used to bullnose edges -- the 1/2” bit is perfect for most stair treads.
I own two Radi-Planes, one set and marked as small, and one set and marked as large. By starting with the small one first, I can cut a larger radius with minimal tearout.
But I only use those planes for odds-and-ends pickup work. I’d reach for my router if I was doing a whole house.
AitchKay
Edited 4/21/2009 9:55 pm ET by AitchKay
I've got one of those radius planes, but I prefer using an 1/8" radius roundover bit that I keep chucked into a trim router. The depth is set to not quite full depth, so there's a little edge ("aris") where the round meets the face. If you're setting up to do production the router is faster and more accurate than the plane, though the plane is great for one-off work. Someday I'll try Malo's carrot peelers.
And I agree with the others. The way windows used to be installed, flat on tarpaper, the factory-standard 4 9/16" or 6 9/16" jamb thickness was fine. With Vycor, Grace, sill pans, etc. adding extra thickness, many manufacturers now offer additional sizes. Or you can do what we sometimes do, and order 4 9/16" and just make your own extensions.
Another trick, if the windows are already installed and a bit shy, is to glue and pin-nail (23ga) strips onto all your casing in one shot, to the average you will need for all the windows. In other words, if the extensions seems to be 1/8" to 3/16" shy, add 5/32" x 3/4" wide strips to all the casing at once. If you leave the strip just a hair proud you can then sand it quickly for an invisible joint.
This has the same effect as rabbeting the back of the casing but is quicker, safer and easier. It's also easier than trying to glue thin strips onto the existing extension jambs, and it looks better than adding another reveal on the extension jamb, in my opinion.
I think every trim carpenter should have a portable thickness planer on site, to re-create those factory edges. A portable jointer also works but a planer is more versatile.
One more tip, I'm never afraid to cut the trim into the drywall just a bit, or leave it just a bit proud to be caulked in, but I hate rolling the casing too much.
Edited 4/24/2009 9:47 am ET by Mike_Maines