I would like to here what you guys typically are required to provide in the way of plan documents to add 10×20 (3 walls) to the back of a existing house. I can tell you that it’s damm stupid what they make you provide in my area. I live in small town out side of Sacramento. here’s what they require. `1. Site plan,including all structures,distance to all property lines and distance between each structure. 2. Title 24 Calculations:2 sets in compliance with Ca. energy commission report.
3. Truss Calcs.two sets with wet stamped and layout
4. Structural calculations (plans drafted by a CA. engineer).
5. Electrical floor plan
6. HVAC floor plan
7. Roof plan.
Get all of that together, copy 3 time and wait 8 weeks to get corrections, wait 4 weeks to review and issue permit after giving up $600 bucks and BINGO you can build 200 SQ.FT of house…..
Edited 8/10/2004 3:54 am ET by Calframer
Replies
Wide variations here in Florida. Rural areas you could get by with a drawing, almost literally, on a napkin. Those areas the inspector expects the standard structural details. Pretty much any decent carpenter could do it in his sleep. They don't worry too much about the A/C, most will get a window unit, or electrical layout but most want to see the minimum standard receptacles and lights installed.
Other counties want more or less what you said. Many of these locations have been burned too many times to just wing it and expect common sense and good trade standards to prevail. You seem surprised that all these plans have to be supplied but you seem like your expecting some breaks for the small size of the addition.
Building departments have gone to a single track process. Anything bigger than a dog house goes the same route. This prevents claims of discrimination over who got by with less documentation when one job is one square foot smaller than the break point and another one is two square feet larger.
Of course things like the distances for the buildings some departments will take a simple, but clear, line drawing of measurements that the HO has taken. Maybe notarized. Many of the schedules can be filled out by the HO. Plans can be simplified. I have seen plans that were mainly descriptions with a simple line drawing. A good carpenter can use these without problems on simple projects.
Please excuse my angst in my post tonight, and thanks for the replies.
I have been very frustrated my the local building dept. Before I started
I went down to the building Dept. and asked what was required, drew up the plans and took them in, I spoke with a different person at the counter who told me I needed to add more details ,Blah,Blah. I redo the plans again get the third different person at the counter and he comes up with a different handout describing the requirements I refered to last night. I have a hard time with the fact that the only part of the building that has to meet todays code is the add-on. Rest of house could be falling down and they say OK but that 200 feet out there needs a 6 pages of plans to get a permit. It seems to me that the money I have to spend on this house would better spent on getting the most I can, rather than paying people alot of money to produce plans.(engineering and tile 24). Any good inspector would make sure that the house gets built correctly when they come to look at it, why do I need to spend the money on design professionals instead of my house? Instead of a nice tile entryway I get two pieces of paper and a permit. Again, thanks for the replies.
I truly sympathize with you ... we're not trying to make you feel worse. But I'm sure the building dept is following the rules, ansd they try to apply the rules to everyone so nobody claims favortisim. Their requirements may be overbearing in this case, but the intent is public safety, and you can't fault that.
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
I can also appreciate your frustration as I work for the local building dept.
I can explain why such pointless and seemingly trite standards with one word... litigation.
We require such paperwork as we get so many complaints about one or two years after project completion about folks wanting to go after their contractor for this or for that or "why we let them build something like this?". Some of these reasons have nothing to do with building codes or safe building practices but once they get an attorney involved and contact the folks who run the county, we hear about it. If we didn't see it on paper first, its hard to make a guy tear stuff down to change it after hes built it as then HIS laywer is in our office complaining.
Our whole state has gone the way of being run by lawyers and litigation and CYA policies and its only going to get worse.
Mike
Are you by chance in Folsom? That is where I am... I agree..the process seems to be pretty cumbersome here.
The first plan I tried to submit was in line with the practice elsewhere - hand drawn, no engineers stamp, etc and they just about laughed me out of the place.
That being said, I've since found that extra time (a lot of time) spent in design pays off later w/ less re-do on the job and lickety split inspections, so having to go through the process is a big PIA (pain in ####) but usually helps ensure that the final is the final......
Wylie
Success = Work+Risk+Luck. Muriel Siebert
Ahh Folsom, I have built several apartment projects there, they have some of biggest **** holes in the world in the building department. I still laugh at this one genius that was insisting that the concrete sub used the post base called out on the plans. I tried for 15 minutes to get this guy to see the problem, but he was hell bent that he was right. Plans said BP66 only trouble was that the post was 6x8 on the flat. (8" dim. along the wall).
I told the sub that if he used that he would be jack hammering them out, but he was more interested in making a fool happy than making it correct. I did have quite a laugh a Inspector when out there with the Project Super and his boss looking at the huge #### holes in 8 post tension garage slabs.... :) I thought I had made a mistake but I was wrong......
Unfortunatley, I don't see a problem with what you have to submit ... sort-of.
The site plan is a no brainer, considering the possibility of building too close to the prop line.
The title 24 stuff is apparently mandated by the bozo attitude in Calif ... I'm surprised you don't have to submit the plans in three languages and braille, with color-coordinated pages :)
The structural stuff is a result of your shaky ground ... can't argue with that.
And the floor plan and building details ... can that all be on one sheet? It should help the HO get what they want, and what they are paying for. More detail ... to a point ... makles it easier for the GC to deliver the right product, and should cut down on sub questions.
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
I see no problem with what you have to submit as where I'm at in Florida, its the exact same thing.
Think of the flip side of all the folks who get something built wrong or in the wrong place and then give either the contractor or the building department grief to bail them out when the only alternative may be to tear it down because its built wrong, not to code or in the wrong place.
Remember, its far easier to change things on paper than on the job site...
Just my two cents of course.
Mike
I helped a HO/Builder here on his 2400ft (footprint) 1 1/2 story with full basement. Truss roof truss floor joists, steel post and beams, LVL beams else where 2 canitlevered interior spaces (8' cantilever).
The plans were 2 8 1/2" x 11" hand drawn sketches.
I have a vague memory that he might have said permits took a week.
Columbia, MO.
Eat yer heart out.......................(|:>)
You wouldn't believe how messed up the framing was but that's a whole 'nother story.
SamT
I know. That was mean. hehehehe
You might really flip them out and tell them that you can go a county or two away and not even need the skteches or building permits.
On another forum a contractor from CA outright said that I was either lying or incompetant when I said that there was no requirement for general contractors to be licenced in Kansas City. And that if the forum was populated with people like me he would never come back.
But he did and KNEW that he was RIGHT when he posted a link to the KC web site that listed contractors licenses.
But he never opened it up. They are only for elevator installers, fire protection, and a couple of similar things, but not for GC's.
Here where I am, a quick hand sketch and permit are required.
Real simple.
Jeff
Here in this part of Maine, it can be freehand sketchs as long as all the pertinent information is included. I don't see that yours is burdensome.
We need a site plan with all setbacks, well, and septic system located.
a floor plan of existing ( Before)
a floorplan of the proposed, with all dimensions
All four elevation drawings.
if this includes a bedroom, we need a septic plan designed for the increased use
We don't see building inspectors ( Yet) so no structural drawings or engineer required, major concerns are setbacks and waste water accomadation.
This addition would cost $30 for permit plus $110 for plumbing permit, if any plumbing is included. Permit fee is ten cents per sq ft with minimum of thirty. A waste water plan from the soils guy can run anywhere from $100 to $450, depending on the site, the timing, and your relationship with him.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
You do NOT add a bedroom. "if this includes a bedroom..."
Instead you add a study, a sewing room, a home office, an 8' by 10' walk in closet, a library, a kid's playroom, etc. but NEVER a bedroom. New bedrooms are required by some unfortunate states to have AFCIs installed and, as you mentioned, the septic field may have to be upgraded. So do not label any room on the plans as a "bedroom".
~Peter
Tool policy: one of each.
Yeah, it's amazing how many art and music studios I have built
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Be careful round here inspectors will redesignate any room with a closet in proximity to a bathroom as a bedroom. They know the game many builders play. AFCIs, septic field, smoke detectors either side of the door and possibly access and egress requirements might be increased.
I had a good laugh, if stifled behind firmly clenched teeth can be considered good, one day when the HO, an older woman with a prim and strict attitude at least until things got thick, explained that the two rooms in the back were a library and sewing room. Inspector, who happened to be on site checking the septics and the foundation on the garage that got added at the last minute, said they looked like bedrooms to him. He was doing her a favor showing up for the changes.
She got fighting mad accusing him of not being able too read the lettering on the plans that clearly said library and sewing room. She was yelling and waiving the plans and cussing the incompetence of government officials and going on about how she was a 'close personal friend' of a county commissioner and how she was going to get him fired.
I got working on the additional wiring needed to get them passed as bedrooms. Phoned my boss at lunch to have him make up a change order. The lady went on and on until someone clued her into the fact that in this case the inspector had the cards and unless things were changed she wouldn't get a semi-perm, final or CO. Luckily the guy who installed the septic tank had suspected as much before hand and included the extra tank volume in his installation.
Sometimes you can get away with such name changes but if you get caught be nice about it. Expect the inspectors to be harsh. AFCIs and extra smoke detectors and wiring for a couple bedrooms don't add much to the cost of a house. In this case it was under $200 extra.
Of course the inspector was extra picky, owing to the verbal abuse, on the return visits and this added more in costs and general inconvenience. He had no problems with the electrical work and the boss got paid for the extra materials ands time.