Followed a recent post about metal roof cutting and IMERC posted some nibblers, all seperated by gauge cutting ability. What is the minimum and workable max for metal roofing? Does it make a difference with style, standing seam verses corrugated, etc.?
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thicker gauge rated nibblers are easier to use on standing seam material because of the turns and diagonal intersecting cuts...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Imerc,
Nibblers are no doubt easier to use then shears, saws or jig saws. But for a finished edge that is not flashed over, I've had no luck.
For valley cuts - ear plugs and a helper to prevent jams, while using a circ. saw has been my easiest method.
My biggest drawback to a nibbler is all them little crescent pieces that stick to your socks and go in your shoes.
One big error I see repeatedly, is failure to clean up after a cut. Be it nibbler cuttings or saw filings, if you don't clean the panel completely, the next morning your gonna have a rust spot or rust flecks. Shows up real bad on light colored panels.
of all the methods I've tried..
the nibblers give me the highest rate of success...
clean up is a given no matter what you cut with...
how's that again for the finshed edge and having no luck...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
how's that again for the finshed edge and having no luck...
Just that making a perfectly straight line, using nibblers, does'nt work for me. On an exposed valley cut, using the nibblers, you have to bear down on the tool to get around bends, seams and ridges. I'm unable to get an acceptable straight line.
The circ. saw method works better for me in this application.
I used elec. shears for the "flat" cuts on my valley's and then switched to my circular saw with a titanium metal blade over the ribs (5v).
I am a DIY, so I had the time to do this, I have very crisp valley's.
I never broke out my nibbler.
From my research most of the decent machines cut up to 18g
26 seems to be the norm around here for roofs, near the coasts I know they use 24 (maybe greater?), I am not sure of code in the high wind hurricane zones.
I also found that the manufacturerer as well as city has recomendations/code for your decking material as well.
Ours is a minimum of 15/32"
I went 23/32 on my high profile areas (addition I added), 15/32" on the low profile, and most of the existing structure was already 3/4"
If I wasn't on such a tight budget I would have went 3/4 all over, and 24 gauge on the metal. Now that I look back on it, the cost probably wasn't all that much greater, but a dime is a dime.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
WWPD
I use a 4 inch cutoff grinder with the thin blade, It will take your arm off. I am afraid of it now.
So, you guys get giant tuna down there? Looking through an old post of mine and see you did your own metal roof, any photos?
No giant tuna in my area. However, a couple times a year we can encounter blackfin that range in the 20-25# class. Just about as yummy.
Here's a pic at 95% completion
And another of me and dinner-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
WWPD
We were on one trip to "the Hudson canyon" about 100 miles offshore, 36 hours at sea, and caught a thrasher shark. That is good eating, took about an hour to land him, 100 lbs of muscle. Who did you buy the roofing from?
Wholesaler
http://www.gometalroofing.com/home2.htm
I had to make the purchase from ABC Roofing
Thresher eats good.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
WWPD
got it...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I did most of my straight cuts with the rolling wheel accessory on the portable Tapco brake. It shears rather than cutting chips, so there's nothing to clean up. The edges are nice and straight unless it jumps the track and jams. It's limited by the 19" throat depth of the Tapco for rips, and by the distance between castings for crosscuts. It's also quite awkward to use when you have to have a lot of metal outside the jaws.
-- J.S.
John,
Any idea what the Ga. limits are, for that cutoff attachment? I don't have one, but I've used then for coil stock before. I didn't think it was HD enough to cut 26ga. never tried though. Do they make different models?
I bent some 26 ga. galvalume on a Tapco brake before-- took some persuading and some extra clamps. Not sure what model we used, I think it had a 14" throat.
I kinda need an excuse to buy a brake- looking for deals
The cutoff accessory is rated the same as the brake. They have two product lines, Pro and Max. They rate the Pro for 0.030" aluminum, 28 ga galvanized, and 16 oz. copper. They rate the Max for 0.040" aluminum, 24 ga galvanized, 32 oz. copper, and 26 ga stainless.
I have the 10'-6" Max. Bending a full 8 ft. length of 32 oz. is just barely possible on it. It works fine for a full 10 ft. of 16 oz, and for short pieces of 32. Long hems on 32 were the worst, I had to start them by incrementally pre-bending.
Seeyou up in Lexington, KY might still have the extra Tapco he was talking about selling a while back. That could be kinda far to ship something that big, though.
-- J.S.
26ga. is pretty much the standard. ( my area anyway) 24ga. is heavy duty, but is readily available.
The Big Boxes sell 28ga. for your carport I guess.
Commercial guys can span 48" on the purlins for "R-Panel".
36" for standing seam. It used to be 60" for the "R-panel" But that changed with the adoption of the new wind codes for my area.
......Just reread your post. Are you looking for min. & Max. metal roofing Ga.? Or are you looking nibbler max. Ga.?
I was looking for exactly how you answered.
There's a LOT of 29Ga roofing out there. I prefer 24-26
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>>>>>>>>There's a LOT of 29Ga roofing out there.That's where I often get beat. I won't fool with anything less than 26 ga. I don't like polyester finishes either.http://logancustomcopper.com
http://grantlogan.net/
It's like the whole world's walking pretty and you can't find no room to move.
Piffin, for each of 26 and 24 gauge, how closely spaced should the 1x4 strapping be... Say on a 4in12, a 6in12, and an 8in12 roof in a heavy snowfall climate. Does the oc spacing of the rafters affect the strapping method or materials?
Rule of thumb answers would help greatly.
Around here no one uses strapping anymore. They sheath in plywood mainly to provide a consistent surface for the underlay or membrane, but it also means you don't risk damaging the roofing walking on it later. I think strapping was popular, before underlayment was used, to allow the roofing to breath, but there were always problems with condensation.
In barns maybe, but how would condensation get into a cold roof detail to be a problem? In a house, if moisture can get to the back of the metal to condense, it will also condense into a plywood sheathing and lead to rot. Houses withthat problem have something more serious going on that whether the sheathing is ply or skip
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
You know I hadn't really thought about it. I would think the condensation results from either periods where the ventilation is not adequate to dissipate the moist air, such as when snow covers the ridge vent. Or when the outside temperature drops suddenly and the metal loses heat quicker than the air within the roof cavity.
We don't have any choice here anyway. Both the roof warranty and local inspectors call for a min. of 30lbs underlay - and I have never had any success installing underlay over skip sheathing.
I thought the felt underlay was to prevent metal to wood contact - and therefore wear - as the metal expands and contracts. But the roofing screws don't allow for movement in any event...
The roofing still expands and contracts, the relativily large washer size and neopreme washer are to cover the "slot" that the expansion and contraction causes to form around the screw holes.
I have laid a lot of standing seam , hidden fastener metal roofing and it usually has slots pre cut for the screws just for this reason.
Thanks for learning me that.
I have been using Triflex underlay. I have heard felt melts and bonds to the underside of the roofing so that the movement creates tears.
It seems funny to talk about the sun heating anything right now. After the 160km winds and 3 months of near constant rain, I scarcely remember what the sun looks like.
Red rosin paper "slipsheet" is used to let the metal move with temperature changes. The tar in the felt would glue it down randomly, causing it to oilcan in between. The range of motion isn't huge, here in LA for copper, it's under 3/16" in 10 feet.
-- J.S.
That depends on required snow and wind loads. The manufacturers have charts available - probably in PDF form online now.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Thank you all for your answers. This will help.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Metal-Roofing-Siding-by-Metal-Sales_W0QQitemZ150078044077QQihZ005QQcategoryZ26197QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Check this out, thought it sounded to good, note the No Warranty part, get what you pay for.
That was an interesting diversion. I would not expect to find a warrantee from an Ebay seller anyway so I went to the Metal sales site
http://www.metalsales.us.com/#to look for the warrantee info on propanel classic rib and 5V crimp, all patterns they make. I could not find the warrantee info,. but they do have plenty there on load tables, fastening schedules and about everything else you might want to install, even videos. but the warrantees I found did not apply to those products. I know I have propanel on my house with a the upgraded Kynar finish, which was supposed to have something liek a 40 year warrantee on the paint itself.Of course, that is dependent on never scratching it...I'll probably live forever too if I never scratch or bruise myself and take care to follow the feeding scedulein the book that came with the body, LOLAnyways - they have some new supercaoted 45 yr coating available now...
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I've been giving the metal roof alot of thought. The 20 year old cedar is at the end of it 's life, very dry and brittle. I've been told by neighbors things left outdoors all year long, patio sets etc., at the shore age quickly, probably why roof looks so old. Given cost of metal verses cedar and expected lifespan I'm leaning towards metal. I would love to do this roof only once in my lifetime, I'm 46. Did get one quote of 17,000 which he later dropped to 14,000 since he had other work there at the same time, 14 sq. Dropped the price without any bargaining by me. Given expected lifespan vs asphalt it's probably not a bad price. That included ripping old and sheeting porch roof since it's skip? sheeting now for the cedar. He wanted to use aluminum, which he said was more expensive but would do better in the salt air. Do you see aluminum used by you?
Ihave only repaired AL roofs, never installed and few ever seen in good condition. BUt if it is heavy enough and since it sounds like you are on the shore where salt water would scare me away from steel.galvalume is top rated stuff too though.I mis-spoke earlier. The propanel is what I used from metal sales when I was out west. On my house here, the product came from McElroy Metal
http://mcelroymetal.com/content/products/display.cfm?product_id=19They ae the ones with the Kynar paint and long warrantee
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
hello,I reroofed my house this year with "galvalum"painted panels.I think it's a 26 gauge.I built over a period of 30 years and replaced 30 yr.old 25 yr.shingles,25 yr.old 20 yr.shingles and 15 yr.old western cedar shingles which were on the newest addition. The western shingles were toast on the south side and lichen covered on the north.I thought maybe I should have used "cedar breather" or strapping but I think climate change is the real issue.I've noticed that the sun has become way more intense in the past few years.
So I bit the bullet and used metal under which I installed snow and ice shield and 4"strapping on 16"centres.I redid all the fascia at the same time.the pattern was standing seam with the fasteners hidden.The coating is guarenteed for 25 yrs.against surface cracking etc.I used a metal blade in a circ. saw and a jigsaw for cutouts.I live 5 minutes from the ocean and so far there's no sign of rust on the cut edges.
First off, welcome to Breaktime! Checked your profile to see which ocean you were talking about and saw no info but did notice this was your first post. Two things, fill out your profile. It helps others help you if they know your location. You probably live near some BT'ers as well. Secondly, I'm curious. Are you a long time subscriber to fine homebuilding, and just now decided to join the forum. I was a subscriber for 4-5 years before my first post.Thanks for the reply, I have about a dozen questions for you, but I'm making dinner for the DW, I'll check back in about an hour.
You nailed it,I'm new to this forum and barely able to manage my computer.I tried to update my profile but couldn't get past the basics,address,pasword,etc.
I live in Lunenberg County,Nova Scotia,Can.I started getting F.H.B. from the bookmobile years ago.Occasionally my borrowed copy would get passed around the jobsite to the point where I would have to pay the library for the issue.[they're very understanding about it]I subscribed these past few years but got turned off by the highend stuff.Ironically the last three or so houses I worked on were all in the 5000 sq.ft.range.Small by comparison to some of the mansions that were grossing me out in the magazine,but oversized and space wasteful none the less. I.C.F.is the standard for the well-heeled up here.The guy I worked for is a genius at figuring things out and has about 30 yrs.experience,not bad for a forty-yr.old.
And then I retired!!!I'm only 55 but I had some good luck and was able to pack it in.So I hired the crew I used to work for and we did a total reno on my old shack.We added a 28x14 ft.solarium{that's geenhouse to the building inspector}.We built a 4' high I.C.F wall with 16 single hung vinyl windows and a lexan roof.Today it was forty degrees out and seventy-two in the solarium.We are thrilled.
I don't consider myself to be gifted in the trade but I really enjoyed the past few years.Working with a good bunch makes all the difference.
The wages in rural areas suck,you can earn a real wage in the city[Halifax]and in recent years there's been lots of work.Now that the reno is almost done I have to figure out how to spend my time.What a great dilemma.
move to New Jersey, you'll have plenty of work.
And again, welcome to the forum.
I have a sun-room back of my house in Buffalo, old aluminum floor to ceiling stuff that you can't get the panels fixed for anymore....
When we bought the house one of my thoughts was to do an ICF knee-wall and windows like what you describe, so I'm interested in how you capped the ICF wall, finished it, and ganged the windows.
If you have the time, any details would be welcome....and welcome to this crazy place!
hello,
So first I have to confess,The interior is yet to be finished,except for a 2' wide run of horizontal 1/2" plywood flush with the edge of the foam block .[more about that in a second]
I chose narrow[22"]single hung vinyl windows to avoid using headers.I framed with 2x6 studs and sheathed with 1/2"plywood flush to the exterior wall.The foam block was primed with aquatic adhesive and covered to grade with Bakor wp 200,a waterproof membrane which also covers the top of the footing.The plate or shoe is p.t. 2x6 with anchor bolts.I used house wrap and taped the window flanges.I parged the blocks with parge plus,a fibrated cement.
I haven't decided how to finish the interior walls as I'm not yet sure what the moisture/temperature range is going to be.I'm currently laying a flagstone floor which is on top of 1 ft. of class a gravel and insulated with 11/2"foam sm board.I have pex pipe for radiant heat{yet to be plumbed] and 4" abs pipe laid out as ductwork to distribute hot air collected at the peak of the roof.
I hope this info is of some use.I'd be glad to respond to further questions. regards,stephen g.,nova scotia. happy building!
I reread your post.As I mentioned. I used vinyl windows with a brickmold .I used 2/6 studs with a full 1" board in between to achieve a 4 1/8 total width.This gave me a 3" space between the moldings outside which I filled with a trim board.I ran a continuous Wooden window sill and top trim,wooden fascia board and vinyl soffit.
Thanks for the info...I always envisioned a continuous sill of Azec on top of the ICF wall, and then framing on top of that....all the joints in the sill if added afterwards always bugged me
I'm curios about the 4" PVC for ducting....that's out of the ordinary
Sounds like it'll be a nice room...