Morning All!
About 3-4 weekends ago the wife and I were in HD looking at wood stains for a couple of red-oak chests I made. I really liked the dark red wood stains and took note of Antique Red on the Minwax Accents Water-Based Wood Stain product brochure. This brochure appeared to be new, fully stocked, etc. as an active Minwax product. HD employees at two stores said it was a new product, but Minwax says its Discontinued.
Firthermore, I learned HD’s position on the product status when they attemed to ‘mix’ me a color of this water-based stain product in their coloration system. Unfortunately, they had Antique Jade and Antique Roase, two colors not in the Minwax brochure. This lead to my emailing Minwax and being informed the product ain’t new, but discontinued.
After much confusion, being informed by Minwax of a soon-to-be-released replacement product, etc. I ventured through their website to find the ‘Accents’ water-based wood stain product just being repackaged. This means that the old-packaged Accents was never bought in store-mixed conditions as HD’s coloration system is almost void of information.
Minwax cannot give me an ETA on the release of their replacement product. HD has the tint-base for the old-packaged Accents, but an inability to ‘mix’ the Antique Red for me. Furthermore, Minwax cannot place the geneaology of the Antique Jade and Antique Rose (thinking maybe it was last year’s color names for Accents) colors.
I am looking for a dark red water-based stain to put onto red oak. Any suggestions? BTW, this will be my first wood-staining project.
Replies
time to leave the cocoon of HD and venture out to a real paint store... like a Benjamin Moore dealer.... or a Sherwin -Williams
or go someplace like the Fine Woodworking site and post your question..
but don't expect to get knowledgeable answers to your questions at HD
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Folks, thanks for the reply. I have no special interest in buying from Home Depot, but I honestly thought expecting Minwax to be offered at a place like Sherwin-Williams was insulting to SW. My mistake. I also was not seeking advice from HD, but rather just trying to get them to color-tint some tint base they had. Unfortunately, they do not have the coloration schematics, and neither did Lowes. I went to these places to buy, that is all.
Now, upon being educated as to where one should be buying this kind of product I will call SW right now ... and like the emails the end result is troubling. SW stated they own Minwax, but they do not carry any of the minwax water-based stains. He suggested ... ready for this? ... Home Depot! For the love of god.
Now, someone on this forum asked me why water-based stains. Well, no reason, really. I picked up a Minwax brochure, found the color I was greatly desiring, and the particular, and only, Minwax product its offered under was their Accents Water-Based staining product. I have zero staining experience.
I understand everyone's concern about water-based stains and the potential for raising grain, which I did not think about. Minwax suggests people using a wood preparation in the form of a wood-treatment application beforehand to inhibit grain raising and provide a better application uniformity in the staining process.
I have no idea as to the differences (pro's/con's) between this and an oil-based wood stain aside from fumes/odors and clean-up. Remember, newbie here. :) Please keep in mind that the Accents product is a heavy-tint (semi-transparent) product meant for decorative applications. BTW, I also know nothing about the gel's either.
"Please keep in mind that the Accents product is a heavy-tint (semi-transparent) product meant for decorative applications. BTW, I also know nothing about the gel's either."
The gel stain might better product for you. It is almost a slow drying "paint" and you can "work" it to get it the way that you want or wipe a lot of it off to get a lighter color (density, not shade).
A true stain uses pigments and they mostly color the grain and not all of the wood. But most commercial stains also have dyes.
But if you want a more uniform look you can use a dye.
If you have a Woodcrafters or Rockler's store or other woodworking supply store you can go there and get lots of advace and they also have the dyes.
Typically the paint stores won't have the dyes, but they have gel stains and lots of good information.
You might go to the libarary and look at books from Bob Flexner, Jeff Jewitt, and Michael Dreshner and look at the picture that show the results of different types of finish products
Time to venture out of the HD coccoon........I'll go with Mike on that
You sound like someone who is excellent at research, knows what they want and are PO'd when they have to deal with I-dots. The professionals in your area are not shopping for stain in HD.
Look for custom makers of stain, finishes etc. There may be local companies that will make a custom stain any color you want.
Gord
Number one, I don't use water based stains as they tend to raise the grain, especially on Oak.
Use the oil based, and get you some small cans of the Red Oak, the Dark Walnut, and the clear, and experiment with mixing your own. I do it all the time and can match just about any thing I want to.
hey tho'..grain raising can be beneficial..esp. if using a WB top coat...the not so secret is to pre-raise the grain prior to final sanding..wipe it all down with a dampend sponge, that also helps show sanding scratches BEFORE the stain goes on, and glue squeeze out too
Then final sand with whatever the last grit is that you plan on using..don't over sand or ya defeat the purpose..
even if I am using no stain or a non-waterbased top coat, I still raise the grain as a matter of habit and to remove all the dust packed in the pores..years of carving guitar necks has shown me that wetting the wood also makes scraping and shaping go much easier.
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Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
Have you looked at any of your post lately?
Your Spheramid had beem relaced by a generic Anglefire graphic.
I suspect that it has to do with Bee's disappeance. That he has not maintainged his website.
"I suspect that it has to do with Bee's disappeance. That he has not maintainged his website."
I blame Bush.
Rich Beckman
Another day, another tool.
So -
You're thinking that the raised grain is caused by lowering taxes ???
.
(-:The ballet. I've been meaning to go, but I'm waiting for bat night.
Boss,
I would love to learn what trail of evidence you followed to lead you to believe that I blame Bush for the raised grain.
That is not what I was referencing.
Try to keep up. :)
Rich Beckman
Another day, another tool.
Heck, I thought the raised grain/lowering taxes thing was pretty funny. Made sense to me anyway.
It's like I tell DW - These things just pop into my head, and I go with 'em.
(-:The beginning of wisdom is silence.
just back looked at this AM's posts and all was well...let's see this one..Thanxs for the heads up..
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Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
I still see it...do YOU? I dunno..wasssup?
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Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
Here's what I'm seeing:
yowzaa! that is NOT what I got..how'd ya do that BTW?
I guess I'll go and edit that out..
OH BEE? where the heck are YA?
Maybe a Prospero thing?
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Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
OK let's see if this is better..I really was still seeing my LOGO on my screen..deleted it ...
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Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
Nope. Still Angelfire, dude.Regards,
Boris
"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934
fixed it good now..thanx
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Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
Wow, 13 posts that were completely off topic. :)
Be thankful that it didnt get political!
what u got against politics, willis ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Nope, it is BACK.
This post is marked as 4:38, but I saw one that you posted at 4:37 on rhw Simpson thread that does not have the anglefire logo.
This time your signature line looks like it always did.
To get an image, I just hit the "print screen" button. Then I open Irfanview and hit the "paste" button. That sticks the screen image in so you can crop it or whatever.
Like this:Our Lady of Blessed Acceleration, don't fail me now! [Blues Brothers]
oh great knowledgeable one..that is cool, and easy. I tried to delete it from the sig line..but now it's Baaaaack..oh well..maybe BEE paid his bill just now <G>
Gee I hope he is alright..
t'anks Boss
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Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
No it is still showing the angelfire logo.
I suspect that you have have cookies in you system that is affecting anglefire.
I was sureprised when I found that your image was posted on Anglefire. Most sites like that limit the way that images can be used. They don't allow them to be linked to another web site and that is why it is showing the logo.
But going direc to Brian's site http://www.angelfire.com/mo3/briansstuff/sphereamid.jpg
Get's me the samething.
When the question first came up about him being MIA I tried looking for other information on his website, but could not find his personal home page.
index.html shows a valid, but dummy page. Anything else I have tried show not existing.
I'll keep tryin to get rid of it...guess I gotta eat the cookies.
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Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
Just to let you know, your Spheramid logo has looked fine on all of your posts that I have seen. I'm not sure why others have been seeing the angelfire image.
Thanks fer that tidbit..maybe different browsers? looks good from here!..
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Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
Clearwater Color Co. Get the antique cherry wiping gel stain , or pick from thier other wipe on no brainer stains.
available from some woodworking supply sites
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
I'm with Sphere - Go with a wipe-on gel stain.
They're lots easier to control during aplication. And the stain soaks in, instead of being a colored layer on the surface of the wood, like minwax stuff. Looks much better, IMHO.
The only downside is that the drying time is a bit longer.
Oh, what a fate worse than death it is to be strapped to the back of a Wookie. [C3PO]
5th,
Plenty of good advice so far. Only thing I'll add is remember it's OK to, and usually way cheaper to experiment on a piece of scrap something. I won't even consider painting a room anymore with a "decorator" color without first having a quart sample mixed and laying it down on a 4'x4' scrap of drywall so I (a especially the wife) can see if we really do like it.
Jon
Edited 5/7/2004 9:00 am ET by WorkshopJon
Maybe I missed it in the postings on this, but doing a pre-stain with a wood conditioner prior to using an oil based stain really makes the color consistency worth the extra time/materials. I have never had any good experience with H2O stains. The H2O topcoats , and I tried serveral, turned my work yellow! I am sure it is just O.T. (operater trouble).
I agree with: get out of HD: gel is good also; grain raising, test pieces, big.
What maade you decide to use H2O based products, this being your first staining experience?
Avon. Witty Inventions,cabinets & finish carpentry.
Ditto on the grain raise but you might want to try:
Van Dykes for Water Soluble Aniline Stains or here for Bartley's Paste Stains.
just to give you some more options to look at.
Adam
Strange deal with the Minwax. It has been a while since I have seen that product, and I think it was clearanced out. If I remember correctly, it is not tinted at the store like the Minwax Water Based Stain (Which uses either a Clear Tint Base or the White Oak Tint Base). The accents was simply an off the shelf color, and the Depot around me never carried all the colors.
Personally, I try to aviod Minwax water based wood stains. They are very difficult to apply on a big surface w/o lap marks or eveness. Now, with Minwax oil based stain, you'd have to be an idiot to screw that up.
Did Minwax tell you it is no longer available? I know that I have special ordered some items from them before.
Eric