Replies

1. 
   hmj | Feb 23, 2009 03:43pm | #1

   I asked my supplier why miratec wasn't very popular. He thought people still had a bad taste in their mouths from masonite siding. Perception issue... Every time I ever used it, it got double back primed, so it might just last the 25 years....

   I don't recall anyone having a problem with it yet.

1. 
   Matt | Feb 25, 2009 06:27am | #4

   >> I asked my supplier why miratec wasn't very popular. <<

   Here, building supplies sell at least 3 to 4x the amount of Miratec as they do Hardie trim.   We are (were) in the middle of a building boom so I'm talking a lot of material.  I see you are from B-more - that isn't that far away from NC - wouldn't think it would be much different there.

   BTW - Please tell me your "supplier" isn't HD or Lowes....

1. 
   hmj | Feb 26, 2009 03:04am | #6

   No, my supplier is "the roof center inc.", but my location only sells siding, no roof materials. They have to special order miratec; hardi and all the plastics are in stock.

2. 
   Hackinatit | Feb 23, 2009 06:34pm | #2

   I prefer installing Miratec vs Hardie because it doesn't delaminate and nails don't split it as readily...

   but Squirrels like to chew the Miratec.

   A La Carte Government funding... the real democracy.

3. 
   RalphWicklund | Feb 23, 2009 07:33pm | #3

   I've used both, the 5/4 Miratec and the 5/4 Hardie. Clarification -  I think it was the Hardie brand, as it was supplied for the job. I would not use the Hardie again. Altough it is indestructible once installed it is hard to work with. The cement product is brittle to the point of snapping if mishandled or nailing too close to the ends. The product has invisible voids and weak spots that can blow out unexpectedly when being cut or nailed. It must be completely supported for cutting or the weight will cause the cut to fracture before being completed. If you accidently drop a stick, chances are that you will have just cut it to length and it WILL break. It can't be hand nailed easily without predrilling plus hand nailing can cause it to fracture, especially if you miss the nail once. Patching blowouts is easy but time consuming. If you blow off the end while nailing corner boards or window trim it's a bear to fasten the patch.  It can look bad, too. I like to prebuild my corner boards, attaching them as a single unit. Hardie is HEAVYYYYYYYY and really impractical for that technique. Miratec, IMO, does not have those issues. It's lighter, very flexible and can be carried from the middle of a 16' stick without breaking. It's really a paper laminate but when face nailed you almost can't hurt it. The face is much harder than the interior. The main weakness of Miratec is the laminate construction. Edge nailing has to be well back from the ends with a light guage nail or better yet, as I do with my corner boards, drilled and screwed. The stuff will split on the edge but otherwise it takes a beating. Care and feeding is similar to wood. Backprime is good and end prime is quality. I use exterior wood filler for patching holes and dings and the screw holes or overdriven nails. I have not had a patch failure on any of my applications, (yet)<G>. I will, usually, prime before I patch. Most importantly, I can handle all of this BY MYSELF. View Image

   
   

   ---

   Edited 2/23/2009 11:34 am ET by RalphWicklund

4. 
   Matt | Feb 25, 2009 06:46am | #5

   I'd say that Hardie trim is a superior product for someone who doesn't have to install it and isn't too worried about money.  You will have to increase your bid not only for the extra cost of the Hardie Trim material, but also because the shorter lengths cause more waste, and there will be more material breakage waste - the later of which isn't a consideration with Miratec.  The weight of the material will slow the installation, so add some for that too.  As soon as they start having budget problems, you have the answer for your part of the job (Miratec). 

   So I guess my answer is bid it both ways.  If you really don't want the job doing Hardie Trim, add some extra in for that.

   BTW - I was having a discussion with an architect a few years ago...  He had some samples of Azek in his office.  The corner boards and the whole deal... He said - "yea - it's a great product!  I have speced it for all the exterior trim, soffits, etc of a home we are starting."   This guy designs quasi-historic new homes so my guess would be it had quite a bit of trim.  I said - "yes - it is great, but awfully expensive."  He said "Now that you mention it we are $150k over budget, and a lot of that is on the exterior..".  :-)

5. 
   FCOH | Feb 26, 2009 03:40am | #7

   Doesn't Miratech come pre primed?

1. 
   smllr | Feb 26, 2009 04:28am | #8

   Yes.

6. 
   danno7x | Feb 26, 2009 02:10pm | #9

   Isnt miratec more like a particle board compisiton, we dont see that here but I dont like what Ive heard about it.  I dont like hardie to work with I dont see the benifits that being that great. 

   Ive used LP smart trim and hear great things about the siding.  Please check it out for yourself but right now im feeling like its a suprior product.  At the supply house they have some LP siding in a jar of water with a date of three years ago it was sealed in there, still looks new.   Its built like advantech flooring.  Its like working with wood so all your standard tools will do.  Comes in lengths a lot longer than 8ft. - hardie dont (for the trim Im talking).  And that godam dust wont get ya.

   Heres the link I think cost is all close with all of them

   http://www.lpcorp.com/sidingtrim/lpsmartside/lpsmartside.aspx

   
   

   ---

   Edited 2/26/2009 6:12 am ET by danno7x

1. 
   Matt | Mar 02, 2009 05:10am | #11

   >> Isnt miratec more like a particle board compisiton, we dont see that here but I dont like what Ive heard about it. << It's treated hardboard and although the "hardboard" part breeds skepticism, I haven't heard of any problems with it.  I've used it on a number of houses.  It has a 30 year warranty.

   >> Ive used LP smart trim and hear great things about the siding.  Please check it out for yourself but right now im feeling like its a suprior product.   <<  Although it has an more impressive warranty, my problem with it is that it has very little track record.    Almost zero - as far as I know.  I have trouble making sense of using an OSB type material on the outside of a house.

   Habitat here uses some LP smart side and smart trim and happened to be building a house in slow motion right near one of mine.  During their building efforts they left a piece of the siding laying out for a few months.  It curled up like a boomerang.  Wish I had taken a pic.   My guess would be that the bottom side was moist and the top side was being dried (baked?) by the sun.  I won't say it was deteriating, but it didn't seem too impervious to moisture...  I'd be more likely to use it if it came primed on 6 sides instead of 3. 

1. 
   danno7x | Mar 02, 2009 05:29am | #12

   Good points, this looks like a good debate pros and cons for all.  I liked the  LP trim  I used and hope to try the siding out.  I do know that I dont like the cement products if I can avoid them the dust sucks. 

   I do like the durability factor of hardie though and am surprised to hear that you feel LP isnt too good.  I was hoping it was the solution.  Of course if I left some miratech product in the same conditions as that piece of siding would it last any longer? I highly doubt it. 

   LP is made like advantech and we all like that, so who knows only time will tell.  Of course with proper flashing and water diversion details any product will stand up better.  If you find the answer tell me first.   ;o)

1. 
   Matt | Mar 02, 2009 05:57am | #13

   I'm not saying Smart Side/Trim isn't good.  I'm just saying I'm skeptical.  The jury is still out.  As trades people/builders/etc, we need to keep focused on the fact that just because something is easy to work with, cost effective, or whatever, it isn't necessarily a good product.  OTOH, I've only used Hardie trim on one house and I hated it because it was hard to work with.

   I've attached some pics of the LP product so other people can get an idea of what it looks like.  It actually looks pretty good on the house and the siding looks more like wood than Hardie because it is a little thicker.  The siding lays flatter too.

    

   
1. 
   MikeSmith | Mar 02, 2009 06:36am | #14

   hey matt....what's that finger doing in the pic ?

   View ImageMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

2. 
   Matt | Mar 02, 2009 07:17am | #15

   Pointing at the wide gap the LP smart trim/side directions specify.  I think it is 3/16ths.

   BTW - that's my finger.  You didn't recognize it?

2. 
   Hokuto | Jan 08, 2013 11:37am | #17

   >>LP is made like advantech

   >>LP is made like advantech and we all like that. . .

   LP Smartside is also made like their previous product LP Innerseal, and none of us liked that. ;)

   One can only hope that LP figured out what the proper binder is, since the one they used with Innerseal certainly wasn't it. The concept of OSB siding is great--economical and ecological--but only if it's made so it doesn't rot after a few years. That's why after my LP Innerseal siding began rotting, I re-sided the house with Hardiplank. I don't know anything about trim products by LP or Hardie; I used real wood (WRC).

   (PS. I'm not a pro, just a home-owner interested in getting the best bang for the buck here in Japan)

7. 
   MikeSmith | Feb 26, 2009 04:33pm | #10

   bish... on our fiber cement siding jobs, we use a lot of Miratec and some Azek... occasionally some cedar, clear

   or FJ primed cedar

   never used Hardi-trim and probably never will

   since it is a given that the trim is going to be painted the Azek is wasted

   the Miratec loves paint and if it's properly detailed ( as the Hardi trim must be also) it is not going to stay wet....

   any of the trims have to be detailed to shed water and avoid capillary action or the paint is going to fail

   so Hardi trim vs Miratec

   Hardi trim is harder to detail and can't be shaped ( like with a router , or ripping )... the ends will always be nasty

   it will cost more to buy and more labor to detail and install
   both will keep their paint for about the same time ( a long time )..

   so... side by side... Miratec wins for me... run the numbers for your architect

   add: oh yes... the 12' lengths vs. the 16' lengths is a big deal

   Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

   
   

   ---

   Edited 2/26/2009 8:37 am ET by MikeSmith

8. 
   Pro sider | Jan 05, 2013 09:59pm | #16

   Hardie fascia shingle board vs miratec fascia shingle board

   I have met up with a hardie rep. And they recomend a flashing over the shingle board wich is very time consuming and would almost have to go on before the roof, so out of the question. I have done the miratec fascia and shingle board system for over 2 years had no problem, just make sure you prime all cut edges with kilz or any other type of primer.  Shingle board is ripped out of 6 inch.   2 3/4 rip.  in the past i have had to bevel all corners wich is a pain but turns out really nice. In all it is a very good and reliable product, has very good dexterity and comes in 16 ft. Length,   Happy hunting.  Thanks.  Installer