Hello, I bought a fixer from a family with a father who had a mental disorder and a hankering for home projects. The work he did seemed like he possessed some carpentry, masonry, electrical, and plumbing skills, but he lacked the ability to finish anything.
He touched everything, but didn’t finish anything.
My first of many questions on this house relates to siding various areas around the house where shiplap is exposed. There is likely no underlayment or it disintigrated over the past 109 years.
What do you do in a situation like this. Just let the house breathe and side over? The last 1910 house I worked on had similar siding no underlayment and the studs/shiplap were dry and solid.
I need to side several areas mostly the lower portions of the house where sill work was done.
I live in the wet Northwest. Thanks for any theories
Replies
Can anyone chime in on this? Thanks
Photo? I'm not sure what you mean by 'shiplap'. Around here, shiplap is a style of clapboard, meant to be exposed.
can you drfine ship as you know it it a bit better...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Maybe I used the wrong term. I guess on old houses its about 13/16 thick, layed on the diagonal, overlapping and 6 or 7'' wide?I've tryed the picture thing with my Mac, having trouble attaching.
what you are saying is that the shiplap is the sheathing, milled with a dado half-lap???So what kind of siding does it have?
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That is what I have. 6'' beveled cedar.
So put tarpaper on the shiplap and then install more 6" cedar claps
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Yes, but what about possible water infultration from above where siding is present now, but likely has no vapor barrier or felt underneath?
Is there insulation between the studs?
We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measureable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world. Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day
Yes there is insulation between the studs. When I bought the place, the interior was gutted to the studs, except the living room. I'll probably remove it and replace it, and likely run into trapped moisture in the insulation?Is there some ohter method to insulate if no vapor barrier is present.?Or diagonal sheathing, beveled siding, no vapor barrier and insulation don't mix?Thanks for the help
The last 1910 house I worked on had similar siding no underlayment and the studs/shiplap were dry and solid.
Sounds like to do it 100% right, you will need to remove the rest of the siding. But since it has survived this long...
Seems you're trying to decide the needed depth of your involvement without doing a bunch of work that isn't absolutely necessary. That's good thinking.
Seeing the lower portion of the walls are the immediate areas of concern as they are open and ready, from here I'd say put the felt on those lower sections of what is easily accessible and just tie in your siding to the old as the upper walls show no questionable demise.
An old house can eat your lunch and demand dessert if you try to make it all perfect to new home standards. It can be done but for an average livable habitat it isn't necessary.
The choice is yours on how involved you want to get with it. It's a balance of practical concerns.
The subjects in question have been addressed here on Breaktime a number of different times in the past.
A wealth of that information is found in the archives here on BT. It might serve you well to familiarize yourself with the various techniques and opinions presented.
If you scroll down in the lower left corner of your screen there is a search function that will take you to previous threads dealing with whatever you type in the search bar.
If you type in 'siding ventilation', rain screen, wall insulation or other keywords of the subject matter you'll get a supply of data from those old threads.
A popular book titled 'Renovating Old Houses' by George Nash is full of practical knowledge dealing specifically with old houses and comes highly recommended by many.
Cheers
We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measureable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world. Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day
Rez,So moisture behind the felt from above is not an issue then? Like Piffin said I would have to remove all the siding to accomplish a complete vapor or felt barrier. I don't think my budget will allow doing that considering all the other areas I need to address. I appreciate the opiniion on what is habitable. And thanks for the search tips, I've used them often, but like to hear current opinions too. Thanks for your time.
It takes a hard driving horizontal rain to really push bulk water in that high on a wall to really have a heavy concern.
Seeing the areas of siding that were disrupted was because of sill work and thus close to the base of the house, if there were no concerns of rot on the siding above the sill plate contactpoints I would think that you are good to go with just buttoning it all back up the way it was.
However that view is based on opinions made from a guy on the internet with undetailed and incomplete descriptions with no pics:o)
We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measureable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world. Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day
I appreciate your view none the less. Thanks
View Image
We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measureable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world. Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day
You say you're in the "wet Northwest". Where at?
There are a couple things that came to mind while reading through the responses you got that I think are worth thinking about before you start replacing siding.
First off, you say the siding and sheathing are gone at the bottom of the walls where there was sill work done? Why did the sills need work? Was the sill reworked properly? Root problem(s) addressed? Or was it simply redone in the same fashion that caused the original sills to rot?
Second, what purpose does felt paper between the sheathing and siding serve? Until you can answer this to your own satisfaction you shouldn't do anything.
Third, why are there two layers, first sheathing then lap siding? You should understand the structural as well as the weather deflecting capabilities of each before you decide how to proceed.
I'd be very surprised if the original hopuse had insulation in the walls, floor, or roof. You say someone has added it over the years and use the term "vapor barrier" more than once. Have you considered what, if any, effect sealing an old building up tight might have on that building, or the indoor air quality?
This stuff isn't all that complicated, but it goes far beyond "nailing it back something like the way it was". Slow down. Take your time and study up on the evolution of how we build here - it's interesting, and important to understand WHY you're doing everything you do, or you run the risk of throwing good money after bad. Tipi, Tipi, Tipi!
http://www.asmallwoodworkingcompany.com
Jim,I can't tell you about the previous condition of the sill. I don't know what it looked like. What I see there now is a layer of foam over foundation top, treated 2 by 6, bolts washers, nuts, short studs with a double top plate. Also extensive footing work was done from the basement with added perpendicular support walls with continous cement footings. However the previous owner did not finish the footing on the entire back wall of the house. Something I'll have to hire someone to finish or help with. He was trying to excavate the slab and lower it a foot while adding foundation footings from the inside.Lap sheathing ends where sill work was done. Plywood covers the sill area below lap siding.When I said vapor barrier I meant tar paper or tyvek or the like.I doubt any of the areas you mentioned were insulated originally. Inside was lath and plaster.I appreciate your concern to take it slow. Thanks for the reply.I'm in Bellingham Washington 30 minutes to the Canadian border.
Nice city. Our youngest will be a senior at Western in the fall.
I'm guessing whatever concrete is there, wasn't when the house was first built.
Housewrap is not a vapor barrier, and I don't think 15lb felt is much of one either, although others may have a different opinion on that one. "vapor" means a gas, right? Something in a gaseous state? In this case water.
You know why we use Western Red Cedar (instead of other species) for siding and other outdoor applications? You understand how/why beveled siding keeps the structure beneath it dry? Do you know why we use felt paper under cedar? You understand how/why diagonal shiplap (you used that term correctly by the way) sheathing is stronger than the same sheathing applied horizontally of vertically?
Answer yourself those questions and you'll know what to do.
Tipi, Tipi, Tipi!
http://www.asmallwoodworkingcompany.com
Are you paying tuition? My wife and I are wondering how we're going to afford it for our two kids. None of my business rreally, don't bother answering.
Below are five pics of fossil's place in question.
This post will contain the larger sized pics for clarity in DSL and the following post will be resized for dialups.
We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measureable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world. Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day
Bump
We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measureable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world. Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day
bump
be two fingers up and sinking down
We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measureable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world. Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day
Edited 8/11/2006 4:50 pm ET by rez
well fossil, I guess we have exasperated the working knowledge of BT.
Best to you and Cheers
We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measureable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world. Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day
Yeah, I guess it was a boring subject. Thanks for your advice a picture posting prowess.
We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measureable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world. Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day
Start saving early, that's what we did. A little each month adds up over the years. Plus we had the added advantage of the roaring 90s doing nice things to the stock market.
Our son went to Whitman, our older daughter to Evergreen.
To be honest though, they mostly got through without too much help from us. Good hard workers, all three (all three were valedictorians or their high school class).
Now our son is starting Harvard Law in the fall. THAT'S expensive, but he's getting loans and grants.
We're awfully proud of all three of them. Tipi, Tipi, Tipi!
http://www.asmallwoodworkingcompany.com
Now I understand your problem.Yes, prepaint of buy it preprimered.Sounds like to do it 100% right, you will need to remove the rest of the siding. But since it has survived this long...
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Around here, that's called diagonal sheathing. You would cover it with 15 lb. felt & then apply siding of your choice...
You can, of course, insulate first. I think you need to consult Mike Smith!
I realize that is what I'm supposed to do, but it seems pointless if the rest of the siding on the house has nothing but diagonal sheathing underneath with no vapor barrier or felt.Essentially felting one area where there is no siding on the lower portion of the home. What about all the water that might infultrate from above, running behind this one felted area?Is my best bet to prime both sides of the ceder siding and caulk butt joints that hit window trim?I apologize about my poor terminology.