Well, now I’ve seen everything. I just watched an episode of Modern Marvels on the History Channel. This episode was about the history of hardware. I learned something useful about the history of nails and screws, and some of the early glues.
But what got my attention was a quick scene where they showed someone placing a bead of liquid nails onto a 2×4 stud wall and then hanging vertically a 4’x8′ sheet of sheetrock! I recognized the tube, and I bet it was the Wood & Decking glue from LiquidNails, but I had never thought of using it to hang rock before.
Now, I do not hang rock for a living, but I will be doing the DIY thing in my basement in a couple of weeks. I did not know that LiquidNails could be used in such a manner, as I never thought the setting time for the glue to be tactful enough was that rapid.
Also, I was always told to hang rock vertically and not horizontally to keep it from sagging. Does using strong adhesive in this manner and on all studs/plates in this application keep the sagging to a minimu when hanging vertically? Someone please enlighten me in this aspect.
BTW, those short clip did NOT show the rocker coming back to finish up with nails or screws. How many of you non-rockers have done drywall hanging in this manner? Really surprised and a little confused.
Replies
Many years ago (early 80's) I hung some pre-finished sheetrock in an office. At the time, it was available in a wide range of colors and patterns, with a factory-applied vinyl wallcovering type material coveriong the face and tapered edges. Trim strips were also available, including outside corners and ceiling trim. We applied liquid nails to all the studs, then used metal clips in about 3-4 places on the tapered edges, and carefully used screws at the top and bottom where they would be covered by the base and ceiling trim. It worked well, but the stuff was expensive, and you had to be very careful with cutting in outlets because there was no patching. Sometimes we would have to cut a sheet to less than the 4 ft width, and wanted a finished edge, so we would score from the back, snap off the rock, then carefully tear it away from the vinyl, and wrap the vinyl around the cut...worked ok most of the time. If the pattern was vertical stripes, the joints were fairly well concealed and it looked ok.
Hanging board with adhesive is pretty much SOP. Vertical or horizontal depends on the framing and application.
Don
Been hanging DW with adhesive for over 30 years. Does that make me a canidate for a modern marvel?
No, just some more questions. :)
Do you nail/screw the perimeter/in-field when hanging via adhesive, or just the glue?
When hanging residential board way back in the late sixties we glued and nailed all of it. Later we nailed the top edge of sheets on the walls to expitite handing and screwed the field. On ceilings we used enough nails to pin the sheet up, and then finished with screws. there was never a time that I used glue exclusively to fasten wallboard to wood in residential constrution. Doing commercial workI have used glue as the primary fastening method for direct application of DW over block walls, and in one case over terracotta block. The purpose of the glue in most cases was to insure the bond between the board and the substrate, no matter what it was. In the case of wood, because it experiences seasonal movement, the glue meant that the board moved with it, where nails were prone to back out( this was the primary reason for switching to screws).
The only time I have seen dw sag was due to misapplication pf the board. Thath is 1/2 or 3/8 inch board on 2' o.c. ceilings. IMO construction adhesives won't stop this from happening, nor would I depend on just it to hang board anywhere. I have wrecked out enough dw over the years to see that (1) not all construction adhesives are created equal, (2)application of adhesive and full contact with the back of the dw is about 60/40 in most cases. I am not saying it can't be done correctly, but the fact that most dw pros are paid by the sq. ft. makes speed an important factor, and proper glueing slows things down.
If you are going to use adhesive to reduce the amount of finishing you need to do, I don't believe you will save much effort or time. Spotting screw heads or nails is the easy part of finishing. Seams, butt joints and corners are where the work/skill lies, and they are there no matter how you hang the board.
Don, my brain is a little fried this evening. SOP?
sop==standard operating procedure
SOP = Standard Operating Practice. It's what you say, with a straight face, when a new boss comes on board and says, "You do WHAT?"
Unrelated to SOL, or "Sorry, outta luck" (for family consumption).
never actually covered an entire wall with rockboard but have covered plenty of small areas on walls for tile backsplashes, etc. I pretty much install the boards on walls the same way I do floors. First, put the bead of construction adhesive on each stud, might want to make an adhesive guide if you are doing a lot of this. the idea and design is available in a Fine homebuilding Tips and Techniques section. Then I would hang the board, a helper might be nice at this point. Make sure it's firmly attached to the studs and then use a heavy pneumatic stapler with about 1 inch staples to anchor it to the wall, staples every 12 inches would be ideal. Then make any cut outs (for outlets, etc) with a drummel with a bit specially made for cutting rough materials like this. after you are all done hanging the boards, make up a batch of joint mortar, use a heavy fiberglass tape especially made for this type of application and work your joints. Hope this is of help.
CDHEIDEL
With 1" staples, you'll only get about 1/2" penetration into the studs...is that enough? And with the thin wire, I question if the staples would have much pull-out resistance.
Edited 12/27/2002 11:17:12 PM ET by ELCID72
> With 1" staples, you'll only get about 1/2" penetration into the studs...is that enough? And with the thin wire, I question if the staples would have much pull-out resistance.
Immediately after installation, the problem with an adhesive wall job is shear rather than pullout. The sheet material will slide parallel to the adhesive plane much easier than it'll pull away from it. Sliding sheets into place also helps to spread the glue around. That little bit of penetration may be just what you need to keep things where they are until the glop hardens. Angling the staples a little bit downward into the wood might also be a good idea.
With low strength material like sheetrock, a large area attachment method like adhesive may well make a stronger result than small area things like screws and nails.
-- J.S.
I also saw part of that show. Interesting stuff.
I had never heard of hanging drywall with glue before it was mentioned on these forums. Guess it's another one of those "regional things".
When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators. [P. J. O'Rourke]
Boss,
You're not alone on this. Maybe it's an Illinois thing, but I've never done it or seen anyone use adhesives to hang drywall either, nor suggest or recommend such a thing until I read it here. Screw it up properly and everything's fine around these parts of the country.
Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
My understanding of the reason for adhesive is to minimize the number of nails or screws needed. When building with KD framing lumber dried to only 19% and then rained on once or ten times, You might be rocking over lumber that is as wet as 23%. You can expect to see shrinkage cause nail pops here and there on a hurried job like most new construction is so the fewer nail or screw penetrations there are, the better the odds are that you won't see callbacks. A crew used to hanging with adhesive can do it faster than not and the taping goes faster too. When you can get a fster job and a better one too, it's not hard to make that decision. That's why we so often hear of rockers who are upset with the idea of visqueen over the studs for vapor bar.
I seldom do it in my remodeling but it is a good thing for the right job. I'm suprised so many haven't heard of it.
If you are doing it, one trick for quicker cure is to slap it up there, pop it away for a couple seconds, and slap it back up again and screw it in place. That helps mash the bead out to avoid lumps and injects air into the mix so it sticks quicker..
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.
The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."
--Marcus Aurelius
Thanks for the re-explanation and re-confirmation of what I've read here.
Any idea of what an appropriate screwing schedule would be if adhesive is included in the install?
Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
Just enough to hold it flat while the glue sets. Some codes would affect this answer for ceilings, I suspect.
The biggest flaw I've seen with this method is hangers that are in too much of a hurry and don't screw or nail enough so it sags away and then you can't pul it tight once you've got a ball of hardened adhesive shimming it out..
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.
The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."
--Marcus Aurelius
Thank you, sir. Sounds like common sense rules again.
Now if I can just remember where I left mine the last time I used it.................
Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
You probably loaned it to someone sorely in need of it. .
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.
The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."
--Marcus Aurelius
"A crew used to hanging with adhesive can do it faster..."
Not sure how that could be possible. I might believe that there isn't much difference, but to think that it would actually be faster seems to me to be a stretch.
On one hand, you'd save time by not having to install so many screws. But you'd lose time by having to apply the adhesive, and change tubes.
"...and the taping goes faster too."
Why would the taping go faster?If practice makes perfect, how do you explain cab drivers?
It's one of those see it to believe it things.
Taping faster because fewer holes to fill in the field..
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.
The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."
--Marcus Aurelius
I haven't followed all of this thread so this may not be pertinent, but as far as I know, it isn't legal anywhere in the states to hang board with adhesive alone. Common practice in Europe, but here it doesn't pass fire codes. The Firemen don't want boards falling on them. By the codes that I'm aware of, adhesive can lower the amount of screwsnails needed, but it doesn't replace either.
Don
You're right on that one Don. As a certified bldg. insp. in my state familiar with the U.B.C. you may use adhesive but are still required to screw off the edges. The code requires a 3/8" bead applied to the stud that spreads to 1" in width. Funny though, I've never been able to see through the sheets to see if it spreads to that required width. Used the adhesive/screw method often as a contractor in a former life and have to admit it worked well. Shorter finishing time and fewer blems in the final product. I wouldn't spend my money on Liquid Nails though. OSI makes a drywall adhesive that was about 1/2 the cost and had equivilant holding capability.
Ah, then you must watch some pros in action. One method uses a foam adhesive in what looks like a propane cylinder in a box and a nozzel on the end of a hose; one sprays the adhesive and assists with lining up the rock; two get and place the rock (alternately); and #4 zings in a couple of screws - really fast. I'm sure there are other methods and work organizations..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
I don't know a rocking crew that doesn't glue.
We use only 5/8" rock and always glue & screw. But never use fewer screws. It's the only way to go for a quality job.