Installed the kitchen cabinets… now the crown moulding. The cabinets are not continous(one down, two up ect.) Also some sit recessed from others. Outside corners are a snap but what about the returns on the recessed cabinets? Middle cabinet is lower then two flankers but the faces are flush. The crown moulding between flankers needs a 90 degree return. How??? I’m using three inch crown with a one inch return rabbited to bottom.
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Replies
I'm not sure I follow what you are trying to do.
If the cabinets are designed to different depths, then you follow the carcass, that means inside and outside corners.
What are the returns for ? Usually we butt into the wall when there's a gap, but it depends on what's on the wall. Sometimes we run the crown right across a window header, sometimes we have to cope to another crown, and once in while we get asked to do a Z return (turn onto the wall and then a terminus return right there. We do both joints on the CMS and glue it up as a unit before it's hung as a single unit.
I've never been asked to put a return on crown going into a wall, it just looks hokey.
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
Not sure I understand you either (but that does not mean I agree with Phill) .... The middle cabinet would not get crown, only the taller end ones.
What does this situation in my life ask of me?
The tall cabinets(right up to ceiling) get scribe mouldings, all the rest (5 in all) get crown. Let me try to explain better...Three upper cabinets in a row, all the stiles are flush across the fronts and bottoms but the center one is about 12" smaller in height then the ones on either side of it. So I have to install the crown between two cabinets that are flush. The top of the crown does not touch the ceiling (obviously) but the ends need to be returned to be finished. Do I just put the finished face against the fence and cut a 45?? I think the 1 by on the bottom is whats throwing me.
I do a 45 deg. return instead of a 90.
This photo shows a different height wall cabs with a corner cab, but I do straight runs with different heights in similar fashion.
Hope this helps.
Basswood,Please don't take this personally, but I think that detail is terrible. I can remember when I first saw it some 15 years ago and it just looks like someone made a mistake.I think whenever you have cabinets of different heights the corner cabinet needs not only to be taller but deeper.View Image
I agree that with different heights on wall cabinets, it does work best with different depths.Of course, I install designs all the time where nobody asks me my opinion.I'll also say that the pic I posted is not the best example (though it is from a kitchen showroom), I've done many that look better. Sometimes the detail I posted is the best option. It also adressess the original post better than your offering.
Basswood,You are correct in that my previous post didn't reflect a good portrait of the condition. I think this one does. The solution I use is to apply the crown to the upper cabinets and a flat stock on the lower cabinets, some time applying a rope, dental or egg & dart to it.View ImageThis kitchen shows just that condition. . .View Image
Yup, straight into the wall, straight into the carcass..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
What program are you using for those drawings?
I just picked up TurboCad V11, comes out to about $10, so I thought I would try it.I think it is too cheap to be any good.
I use ecabinets and it's free!
http://www.ecabinetsystems.com/
Edited 2/15/2006 7:15 pm ET by Joe
Thanks. I just ordered it. The FREE part helped make my mind up quickly.
I agree with your solution. This is not an ideal circumstance, but the return method is the one and only best way to remedy the situ. I do sometimes use a 90 deg. return in lieu of the 45. Nice detail, though.I get paid to do carpentry. That makes me a professional.
If I work on my own house does that make me a DIY?
The 45 won't work in my project the crown sits atop the cabinet with nothing to 45 to. How did you cut the 90 return?????
I think I know what you are doing and this the solution I have used before when that happens.
Cut an additional block of material to add to the top of the lower cabinet/against the higher cabinet. Make it the same height as the finished crown. This will allow you to return the crown to the additional piece of wood added to the top of the cabinet........hope this helps, if I'm understanding your situation right.
You've got it. We need to return to something...the filler block. Thanks to all for the pictures and answers. Now to get er done.
got kicked
My answer is to do what zorro is describing. Cut a small piece of filler material if you have it and install atop the cab abutted to the corner. End the lower crown length with the long point at the higher cab with a 45 miter cut. Use a mitered return to turn direction into the small block.
With your situation of the crown sitting on top of the cabs, you may need to do some test cuts to determine exactly the best location to stop the crown, as I assume it involves a nailer, as well.
The savior in this case, as shown in Basswood's picture, is the small block of material. Ideally, the block is somewhat treated like an extension of a side rail.
After some thought, if the 90 return would work, also would the 45. The most important peice is the block.
That is, if I am understanding you correctly.
Be sure to speak up if I/we are STILL not getting your problem!I get paid to do carpentry. That makes me a professional.
If I work on my own house does that make me a DIY?
Hooker & Zorro,Glad you explained the filler block thing...I was in a hurry to get out the door to spend time with DW.I hope Johnny is set now.
I hope Johnny is set now.
Me too! Surely he'd let us know otherwise.I get paid to do carpentry. That makes me a professional.
If I work on my own house does that make me a DIY?
When installing crown the way you show it I would think that a 45 is better than a 90 because the crown returned at 90 might interfer with the operation of some doors. Or am I chasing a ghost?What does this situation in my life ask of me?
45 return is better for full-overlay doors with less clearance.90 can be done, with full overlay, you just have to do an "early return"...an inch or so before the taller cabinet.I really liked the 45/90 (or really 22.5/22.5) return someone posted a sample of
When the cabinets are the same depth but different heights, I do what Basswood does. As far as I know it is called a mitered return or stop. You are essentially turning a 90° corner. You can use any mathematical division of the 90°. I have a similar picture to Basswood's. On the taller cabinet I used four 22.5° cuts, which gives a little different look than two 45°. On the lower cabinet, where I had to stop the crown, I used two 22.5° and a 45°. There was nothing on top of the cabinet to return to. There was a hole showing. I just glue a small piece of scrap behind to block the hole. Usually you have a piece of toe kick left over that will work.
There are many styles and sizes of crown molding. Some have a mounting cleat or rabbet that can attach directly to the top rail of the face frame. The overlay doors on some cabinets only leave a small amount of the top rail showing. If you try to nail the crown to the face of the rail, it may leave too small of a gap above the door. I often have to build up some backers/nailers on the top of the cabinets for attaching the crown. I like to use a beveled backer that matches the angle of the crown. When you have to make precise cuts in pre-finished materials, having them sit at a consistent and correct angle can really help with getting a good fit. It's not like you can sand the corner if it doesn't fit and you don't want to have an open joint prominently displayed or crammed with color putty. I'll post a picture of backer also. When possible, it's easier to do the backer and in some cases, install the crown before putting the cabinets up.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Nice mitered return samples...I'm gonna have to make some up like that.
Thanks for all the help. I think we got it.