Copied from a post on JLC
The Consumer Product Safety Commission, which is leading the multi-agency investigation, said it needs to further study the matter before it can consider a recall, ban or other solutions to help affected homeowners. Additional results from ongoing studies were due to be released next month.
“The expansive investigation and scientific work that has been done and continues to be carried out is all aimed at providing answers and solutions,” Lori Saltzman, a director in the CPSC’s Office of Hazard Identification and Reduction, said Thursday. “No connections have been made yet.”
Saltzman said the agency, which has so far spent $3.5 million on the studies, has received nearly 1,900 homeowner complaints during one of its largest consumer product investigations in U.S. history.
It seems they can’t make the connection, so far!
Replies
when it's our feds vs "our china" seems the "connection" is never made...
kinda like... when it costs the feds more than last year... BUT it cost less than they projected it would ... then all the reports will say... and they will claim they saved us money and "cut" spending...
it's a "fog" they live in where the only truth is their own...
kinda like bob & frenchy <g>
P:)
I can't believe that this has been posted as long as it has and there has been no comments.
It appears that when it can be blamed on China, boy eveyone is jumping on. When we can't figure out what is happening, silence!
I don't think "THEY" want to upset Hopsing, everything they send here, if scrutinized, has issues.
Any proof of that?
In your wildest imagination conjure up a condition that it would take $3.5 million, spent, and NOT have the answer. Ya think their labs are doing their job? In my little world, seeing is believing, process of elimination, materials used, ect. They found melimine in baby formula,
these folks don't care about ANYTHING EXCEPT $$$$$$$. They are more corrupt than Washington, and Wash. does not want to upset their banker.
When all the toys came over with lead coatings, it effected the kids, so that did get the attention of Wash. The SR thing is a little trojan horse. This is how my mind works, you only get one chance in life to pull the wool over my eyes.
So in the absense of scientific proof, you find a conspiracy?
Consider there might be a chemical reaction to some existing condition present in the house or maybe the weather?
This is starting to sound like the reasoning used in the cases of women suing over breast implants. Funny how scientifically that couldn't be proven but lots of civil lawsuits proved it.
A civil suit only demonstrates the skill of the lawyers and the gullibility of 50%+1 of the jury.I think the problem with the chinese drywall cases is the over reporting of the number of houses affected. The people who really have the problem "really have the problem" but there are also a lot of people who piled on, hoping to get some financial help on houses they are hopelessly underwater on. When you take into consideration that our well water will also blacken pipes and damage fixtures you can understand how this could obfuscate the investigation.This is a brass check valve that was in my pump house, nowhere near any drywall. (compared to a new valve)http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Sulfur%20and%20brass.jpg
Your black brass valve sure raises a red flag..but tell me...why does IT happen only in houses with Chinese drywall? If well water is a culprit, then it should have happened decades ago!
Well water damage is continuous. But in new houses and with people not used to the blackening from well water the damage could easily be mistaken for the symptoms of Chinese drywall. Our well water has lots of sulfur and corrodes any and all fixtures eventually.
I am probably going to go inspect one of those Cape Coral drywall houses Wednesday I will get back to you on it.
I'll be really interested to see what you find. The county is having drywall inspections on all the houses they are buying. Any Chinese drywall and they won't buy. He said most of them have a distinct sulfur smell if they have been closed up for long.
Got this in an article from Coastal Contractor today."The Sarasota Herald Tribune says that toxicologist Tom Gauthier of the firm Environ International, hired to study the problem by builder Lennar Homes, has found that the elemental sulfur in the panels reacts with naturally-occurring carbon monoxide in the ambient air to form carbonyl sulfide. The carbonyl sulfide then reacts with moisture and air to produce hydrogen sulfide and carbon disulfide. All three gases have been detected in test chambers and in homes containing the Chinese drywall. And according to Gauthier, Environ was able to stimulate a much faster release of the offending gases by placing the drywall in a chamber rich in carbon monoxide."
On a drywall forum, drywallers in Florida also are saying that the water has sulfur and that many building materials contain bleach and formaldehyde..they say it's a bad combination.An example is: Leave some Florida water in a joint compound bucket and in 3 days is stinks to high hell!
Oh no. A different source of sulfer?
Sad to say that I find myself very cinical, I would NOT trust my government, local or otherwise with ANYTHING. And quite frankly I have been proven to be right by a large percentage.
"I may not know what I'm talking about, but I know I'm RIGHT."
Lots of supermarkets are now selling fish like tilapia and mahi mahi, with "PRODUCT OF CHINA" in small letters on the package. Their price is almost HALF of other brands. I don't trust the China product and will not buy it. What also bugs me is that the China "brand" says AMERICAN SEAFOOD or USA SEAFOOD in large red and blue colors on the bag.
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
If it's a "farmed fish", I can't imagine what they are feeding them, as they see fit to put melamine dust in baby formula. I'm old enough to remember when the "Made in Japan" label was scorned. Now I feel alot better if it comes from Japan not China. Obviously prefer "Made in the USA", but that label is fading even faster than the economy is tanking. Washington is more of a disaster than ever.BTW I just read in Coastal Const. that sulfur content is the culprit in the China man's drywall.
I was with you right up until your very last sentence. Everyone's been calling it Chinese drywall. Your use of a term that is considered at least mildly offensive by people of Asian descent dilutes your point and is probably not in the best of taste.
Ironic that after exporting so many contaminated (impure) products that they manage to put PURE sulfur in something - that shouldn't have it :p
Still More Chinese Drywall News
From: http://www.coastalcontractor.net/cgi-bin/filereader.pl?template=1
Pure Sulfur May Be Culprit in Chinese Drywall Problem~
Scientists addressing an early November conference in Tampa, Florida, on defective Chinese drywall have offered a more detailed explanation of why the material produces gases that corrode copper elements in buildings, such as wiring and air conditioner coils. According to reporters who attended the "Technical Symposium on Corrosive Imported Drywall," a $300-a-head event sponsored by the University of Florida, a leading investigator into the problem says the gas releases can be traced directly to the presence of pure sulfur in the panels.
The Sarasota Herald Tribune says that toxicologist Tom Gauthier of the firm Environ International, hired to study the problem by builder Lennar Homes, has found that the elemental sulfur in the panels reacts with naturally-occurring carbon monoxide in the ambient air to form carbonyl sulfide. The carbonyl sulfide then reacts with moisture and air to produce hydrogen sulfide and carbon disulfide. All three gases have been detected in test chambers and in homes containing the Chinese drywall. And according to Gauthier, Environ was able to stimulate a much faster release of the offending gases by placing the drywall in a chamber rich in carbon monoxide.
Government scientists lag behind Environ's investigators and other outside researchers, notes the Herald Tribune ("Federal scientists trail others on drywall," by Aaron Kessler). Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) scientists in a report last month, the paper notes, "were not yet even able to state there was an association between the tainted drywall and the corrosion of copper wires, pipes, air conditioning coils, and other metal components" — even though "Florida, along with a host of private consultants, has long since determined that there is a strong association between the drywall and corrosion."
Tom Gauthier's results were corroborated by Michael Tuday, research and development director of California-based Columbia Analytical Services, Inc., and Zdenek Hejzlar, an expert in the environmental and toxic health fields with the Fort Myers office of Engineering Systems Inc., reports the Fort Myers News-Press ("Blame sulfur for drywall woes, experts say," by Mary Wozniak). "The three scientists, in separate presentations, confirmed that the sulfur interacts with indoor air and other agents, like carbon monoxide, to cause different sulfur compounds to be emitted from the drywall in low amounts. It is enough to cause the drywall’s corrosive effect on air conditioning coils and other metal items in the home, they said."
The sulfur explanation has the virtue of simplicity — unlike a competing theory that casts suspicion on a possible microbial source of the gas releases. "Some labs say Chinese drywall contains significant amounts of sulfate-reducing bacteria," reports the Palm Beach Post ("Bacteria, chemical reaction debated as roots of drywall problem," by Allison Ross). But "the bacteria theory needs a lot of work," said Florida Department of Health toxicologist David Krause, pointing out that while the drywall may contain bacteria, no connection has yet been established between the bacteria and the sulfuric emissions. On the other hand, if carbon monoxide is the limiting element in the formation of carbonyl sulfide, then according to basic chemistry it would make sense that gases are emitted at a steady rate until most of the sulfur in the material is consumed — subject only to the continued availability of carbon monoxide in the ambient air.
Environ scientists also told the conference that in their view, removing the bad drywall and replacing it with fresh, sulfur-free drywall should eliminate the problem, according to the Sun Sentinel paper ("Rip out Chinese drywall and start over, scientist advises," by Paul Owens). James Poole, an industrial hygienist with the firm, said, "If you remove it, clean up the debris, ventilate the home and rebuild, there's no reason you can't expect success."
Lennar Homes, which has torn out and replaced the defective drywall in dozens of homes already, refused to comment, the Sun Sentinel reports. But Heather Keith, a lawyer for GL homes, which has replaced drywall in at least 20 units, told the paper that customers were "happy" with the fix, saying, "There are no reported or ongoing health or odor issues. I'd be surprised if the scientific community would say that the extensive repair that involves the complete removal of the interiors of a house is premature or insufficient."
Hey fram,why does it cost 3.5 mil to study drywall? cant you send it to a lab and test it or is there more to it? how does the legal system work between countries?
Lou C
good question
Still can't find out if the airing of these homes eliminates the problem.
The above referenced article says carbon monoxide is the catalist, didn't know there was that much carbon monoxide present in new homes, or for that matter where it comes from.
Hey fram,why does it cost 3.5 mil to study drywall? cant you send it to a lab and test it or is there more to it? how does the legal system work between countries?
It's kinda like an episode of This Old House. First you have to talk about the situation with a bunch of people who aren't actually doing any of the work. And not at the job site location. Then you have to take a trip or junket to an exotic location where the product has been used and finished. Spend more time just talking, and about other things besides to main topic at hand.
Then you go to another active job site where they are using a similar product. You discuss various methods and applications.
Of course you must go talk about it more at the current job site. Bring a long a local expert to talk ad nauseum. Maybe even a lab testing spokesperson.
Then you go visit a manufacturing plant. It doesn't have to be the plant that is making the product in question. Just to see how it is done. Do some site seeing.
Then maybe, you go see the people who made the product in question. Do more site seeing, go to some local eateries and mention the problem. Just in passing to make it a legit fact finding tour.
Then back to the original job site to witness a second trip by the testing lab personnel. A technician will now "tent" an area near a wall. In full haz-mat suit the tech will carefully remove a piece of drywall with some precision portable lab machinery. Fully calibrated to Cal-Tech specifications. BTW, Cal-Tech scientists will be there to watch and talk more about it. The sample is hermatically sealed, packaged in dry-ice and sent to the lab for a 6 week turn around in testing results.
None of these people stayed in a Hotel-6. And they all flew private Lear jets or flew first class. They didn't eat at a deli, fast food drive-thru or local diner either.
So far, nothing has been settled. But it is "obvious" that more work and study needs to be done.
$3.5 million? A mere bag of shells.
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?