I’m building an architect-designed house for the first time. Heard lots of tales about design flaws the builder had to correct. All joking aside, what’s your experience been?
This archy seems to have really good knowledge of the building science aspects, and has an in-house structural engineer that consults on all the plans. But I don’t want to get a false sense of confidence, even given all that. What areas should I really look out for?
A high-performance single-family home builder shares tips from his early experience with two apartment buildings.
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Dimensions called out on the prints. R.O.'s are important and pretty self evident. However, from where are dimensions pulled.
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Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
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Most common errors I see are the invisible things like placing can lights in a ceiling where the floor trusses above already occupy space or trying to put two things in the smae place like having a can loight right directly under a drain from a bathtub above.
After that, I am suprised at how many miss the simple things like door swing direction or spacial conflicts like two doors needing to occupy the same space.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
I've never seen a perfect set of prints. Just like I've never seen a perfect house.
The "human" factor is present in every aspect of home building, and it's best not to dwell on it. My limited experience: people spend too much time playing the blame game.
Build what they draw to the best of your ability. Mistakes sort themselves out.
In with the good, out with the bad. Think positive. All that happy horsesh!t.
I wish I had a reason;
my flaws are open season
Edited 4/10/2007 6:50 pm ET by dustinf
"Build what they draw to the best of your ability. Mistakes sort themselves out"There are a lot fewer mistakes to sort out when the plans get double checked and proofread better than my typing here does
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
"better than my typing here does"got a smile out of that!
I won't see I've seen mistakes made but just too much info on some plans like "asphalt shingles over 90lb hot mopped roofing" (huh?) or a recent one "conventially framed engineered trusses". Never seen those.
But guess what, PEs do it too!
I always setup a meeting with the arch. to discuss the project before starting and it works out well that way. Never had any problems after the first meeting.
Most common thing ive encountered is trying to squeeze windows in walls and not taking in account the framing dimensions or the eventual trim details. They also like to draw nice pretty straight lines that in reality make the framers go nuts trying to duplicate.
I have seen more than one print call for the studs to be turned to the 1-1/2" dimension.
Okay saving space no big deal. Not ideal but acceptable.
In those same walls are doors. Thats the problem.
3 or 4 ply LVL girders in the middle of the second floor framing. Good idea, makes large open spaces. Some as large as 30'.
WHere do the mechanical guys run their pipe/heat runs? No common walls to run through floor to floor. Looks like the closet gets the axe.
I will remember before I forget.
In those same walls are doors. Thats the problem.
I don't see the problem. Doors are only 1-3/8" thick. That leaves 1/8" plus two thicknesses of sheetrock ... plenty of room. Be sure to use pancake boxes for the electrical.
:)"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Doors get slammed or closed too hard and the sheetrock seams crack. Screw heads pop. Caulking cracks.
I wasn't saying it can't happen, it shouldn't happen. Not rigid enough. I will remember before I forget.
LOL, It is hard for framers to replicate those pretty curved lines too
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
No it's not. Curves are fun. You have the wrong guys framing. :)
I will remember before I forget.
Check at least one window's dimension on the manufacturer's web site against the rough opening given for it on your archy's drawings. That's a real obvious place to make an error which could be repeated throughout the building. I was once hired to build an architect designed structure on whose drawings all the window openings were too small by a couple of inches. If I hadn't checked an Andersen catalog I had at home, we'd all have been totally ski-rude, particularly the archy. It turned out that those errroneous dimensions had been added to the prints by a new hire at the archy's firm.
So, did the archy offer me any kind of reward or compensation for saving his butt? Nope. Did I tell his client, the guy who hired me, about that mistake? Nope. Have I ever had that kind of mistake happen on other architect's jobs. Yep, every one of them. Did any of those stiffs ever rewarded me for saving their pencil pushing butts? Do you think I'd be busting on them if they had?
Check all the detail notations and confirm that adequate drawings have been supplied for any and all details. The biggest pain in the butt I have often had with architects is trying to get complete, engineer approved detail drawings for all the "little things" on a big custom home. "Oh you know how to do that", does nothing to cover your butt and everything to cover his.
One other common mistake is forgetting to add joist/subfloor heights to important dimensions. I built two small, high end chalet style vacation homes in Hemlock Farms, PA. for an archy who forgot that little item each time. And each time the upstairs bathroom had to be moved over 12 inches so that the toilet didn't end up without sufficent clearance/head room from the 12/12 roof/ceiling. In each case that meant a number of other things needed to be changed/moved as well. Of course he thanked me for saving his butt, both times, and each time I asked him to "just bring a case of cold beer for my crew on Friday afternoon". Each time he enthusiastically agreed but we never saw a drop of beer, cold or otherwise. Or heard from him again either.
So what, in essense, am I suggesting? Every drawing and every dimension is suspect until proven to be correct under full scale, three dimensional scrutiny.
Edited 4/10/2007 8:07 pm ET by Hudson Valley Carpenter
Thanks a bunch! I'm making a list from your suggestions, and several other here. Which I will check at least twice, before the first hammer flies. Anybody have anything peculiar with foundations?
Are the plans "hand drawn" or from a computer CAD program? The reason I ask is that the computer at least does some checking of dimensions, and it's a little harder to mess up. If the prints are hand drawn, check all the dimensions carefully.
For example let's say a long exterior wall has a dimension of 40'. Windows are centered, starting from the front corner of the house to the back corner at 6'-7", 8'3", 6'-0", 11'9", and 7'1". Sounds OK - right? Now add up the dimensions. :-)
OH - and by the way, your window trim just ended up into the edge of your bathtub enclosure. :-)
Actually, check the dimensions even if the plans are drawn on a computer...
Here is another one: Changes. When changes are made on the prints, often this causes various odd problems. OK, like let's say you had to move the front door over 1' to accommodate the sidelights you want on it. It's gets done on the floor plan - no prob. But did it get properly transferred to the front elevation? Or did the designer just draw the sidelites in, but forget to move the whole assembly over on the front elevation and the column/pier footing didn't get move over either. Congratulations - your front porch columns are now not centered on the door :-) Sweeet!!!
So check your plans between pages. Is the foundation the same size as the house floorplan? You would hope so, but I've seen it where a number if a few inches off... Is that center pier supporting a point load really under the point load that originates all the way up at the end of the hip roof ridge? Or did that point load move over a foot when you changed the pitch of the hip roof? Is that 10:12 roof plane on the side elevation show as a 10:12 on the roof plan? Your truss guy may only look at the roof plan.
Here is one that is more specific: designer draws porch 6' wide. You want 12" columns with a taper so designer just slaps 'em on the front elevation. The columns are actually 16" at the bottom since they have plinth blocks at the base. Only problem is that the floor plan shows the 4.5" wide front porch beam face 6' out from the front of the house. Congratulations!!! when your carpenters go to set the front porch columns they only have about 1" hitting the beam. And the siding guy already did a really nice job of covering the beam and doing the front porch ceiling. :-)
Along the same lines, if you use any trusses, check the truss plans carefully against the house plans. Is there a floor truss that is going to end up right in the middle of a duct chase? Are the floor trusses the same width as the house - 1" for the sheathing on either side?
On the other hand if your designer/archi/eng makes a mistake, don't worry, they always say sorry. :-)
Thanks, Matt. They're CAD, but I see what you're saying.
Not enough room for the stair runs (including enough head space) along with windows not fitting the walls they're supposed to fit in. Although, one window brand may fit whereas another brand does not. I would think the stairs to be basic stuff since the details are pretty common and old but they show up often enough.
My experience is that Architects and Engineers who have spent time in the trenches are much easier to work with. Less working design flaws.
Those that are strictly book learned and classroom trained are more difficult to work with. More working design flaws.
Some years back there was an article in FHB about an archy who decided since his work was slow to take on the actual building of one of his designs.. including the plate glass mirror surrounding the fire place.
Great article about how he learned about things like clearances, out of square , constrution tolerances etc. I used to keep a photo copy around just for some of my "favorite" design people.
How about prints based on scale of 10 instead of feet and inches.
Ummm. Those are metric.
Forrest
Don't be too sure.. could be Engineers scale. ;-0
I meant like 7.5 feet or 9.8 feet
brownie,
Got ya. That is one I have never seen by an archy..
Being a PE, but in a different field than Architectural, we use engineered dimensions all the time. It is a lot easier to add joints of casing and drill pipe if it's 41.21' than 41' 2.52" when using a cheap solar powered calculater or a Reverse Polish Notation(HP).
As with any disciplin, it's all trial and error. Most Teachers are people that couldn't handle in the work force. Some of the best teachers did spend time in the field, but they are far and few in between.
Building a new house right now and I am trying to get the Foreman (30+ years) by trying not to use as much wood as he feels like. Better to have insulation than wood (i.e. a 2.5' wide window with an ilevel insulated header, but with double jack studs and a cripple against the jacks). Out of four of these windows, wasted almost 10 - 2x6x10' boards.
If you don't like your house, build your own until you get it right. Woodnuck
Every Civil Engineering drawing (Dirt work , underground utilities etc.) I have ever seen is done to the Engineers Scale. Plays hell with some people . I love my Construction Master ! Reminds me of sitting with a bunch of young carps at lunch one day . they were all one upping each other with all the important #'s they could remember .. drivers lic., S.S., Bank card, Checking account etc. I finally asked them if any of them could tell me the decimal equivilent of 1/8".... not one could!! Hope they all found some other way to earn a living.
They may not be metric they may have been laid out by a Civil Engineer/Architect using an engineer's rule (feet and tenths of a foot) instead of an Architect's rule (feet and inches).
Jim
I have seen the 7.5 feet thing, but they were on plans drawn by a non-architect."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Must be CAD drawings drawn in a third world country where the menu for dimension selection is sticky and not working.
I really find it very difficult to draw when I'm in the trenches.
And there's no place to plug in my computer ;o)
Jeff
Jeff, Hmmm.. you haven't used a few aliases on prints have you ? I ask because I sure have had some done by people whose finished product looked like it came out of a trench and they couldn't draw either. ;-) I Like Joe's answer, I truly believe that it is a team effort to do a project, we all bring skills and melding them is what makes it work.
I have screwed up more than one architectural design , screwed up more than one engineers carefully calculated work , and have had them do the same to my work. Conversly they have saved my butt and I have saved theres more than once. I am starting a new winery project , I e-mailed the engineer ( I consider him a friend) who is the same one from the last two wineries I did. The e-mail was real straight forward...and meant as a joke. " Miss me ?" (Because we haven't worked together for 2 yrs.) His reply was equally straight forward... " Already asking questions... "
" Miss me ?"
And he could have said 'Yes - I'm reloading' ;o)
Jeff
"laughing here" true enough , and I am sure he has had that thought !
Did a job just before Christmas. Archy was a joke. Some big shoot company that does mostly commercial jobs. If I see another set of prints with his name on it I'll refuse to do the job. To many problems to list. Dimesions way off. Couln't scale drawings but didn't give all nesecary dimensions. Guy would never show up if there was a problem. Didn't return calls. Over built everything ( I have no problem doing that but this was outta hand). Improper specs. Theres way more on top of that but I'm getting mad just thinkin about it.
Instead of blindly building the plans it does work to everyone's advantage if you think through the build and come up with solutions to the problems prior to being shut down by a big issue. Simply let the arch know what the problem is and your suggestion to correct it. Often times that's all it takes.
If you try to skirt the arch and change things, even problems, without the arch in the process to give the final ok, you're risking everything built on your creative building since his agreement with the client may not allow you the latitude and you then get to fund the demo and rebuilding to his specs.
If something is spec'ed in the plans it's short sighted to assume it can instead be built according to normal building practices to save money. Framers are famous for getting slammed when they build to minimum code rather than what's written down.
As soon as possible bring up unrealistic spec's and get it resolved to everyone's satisfaction. For instance if a perimiter drain is listed, but the soil conditions are such that it doesn't make sense it can be as easy as asking for an opinion of the engineer who tests the soil for load bearing and pass the information on to the arch. It may be that he builds everything with a drain, or he may remove that requirement based on the engineer's report. If you want something changed you'll have to ask for it.
Don't confuse the arch's problems with your own. He's responsible for the design, you're responsible for building it. If there's a significant issue with the design make sure he's the one to fix it and don't get dragged into a black hole of finger pointing.
On the flip side of the coin, don't expect much sympathy if you frame the roof a 7/12 and the plans call for a 9/12.
The most common issue if the design is tight in spots will be the HVAC and to a lesser degree plumbing. LVL's in place of I-joists sounds good until you need to stuff a big duct through it. If you're in tune with what the subs will need work through it yourself, but it's better to show the plans to everyone up front before framing starts.
Don't expect miracles. Arch's are building on paper with incomplete information and are only human. They rely on the builder to inject a good portion of construction knowledge to the process.
Finally, as with any significant project I'd highly recommend keeping a hand written log since it's much more valuable in court than your memory.
Good building!
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
Most of your comments are right and true, but they seem directed at a builder. My impression is that the OP is a HO who has hired an architect to design and draw his home.So for instance where you adress building to what is drawn, this context should be to make sure that what is drawn is adequate to be able to build what is intended.. I recall one of my early jobs with archy involvement where they had support columns carrying the load from three stories above and there were exterior draperies receding into that space of the column. The first plans had a couple of lines outlineing the column and a note with an arrow. All in 1/4" scale.
I made him produce me a 1" scale working drawing to show all the details before i built it. In that process, he realized his inadequate spacial consideration and had to change some of the room contained within the space.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
My impression is that the OP is a HO who has hired an architect to design and draw his home.
Wow, did I ever miss that one. That's the problem with writing at 2 in the morning! *chuckle*
I like your idea of the 1" drawings.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
Its sure a lot of fun working in an Architect's office. Especially when the phone rings.
I remember a call from a GC who was working on a bowling alley we were doing. He asked whether the grid lines referred to the middle of the steel or the outside. Looking at the plans I replied "The outside", and was a little shocked he had to ask. He countered with "Check all your sections and details." I hadn't drawn it, but I should have caught it.
Another memorable one came when we were trying to network our cad stations. Another GC called to ask why the roof top cooling units were shown hovering in the air above the condominium courtyard?
Luckily both GCs were good guys and had caught the errors before they became problems.
How about a foundation around the covered front porch without brick ledges on either the inside or outside; designer forgot to transfer them from the main page to the foundation page.
I love this topic!!!!!
After reading all of the comments by all of the distinguised contributors, and being an "archy" myself, I think that the biggest problems I see and hear about are (in no particular order) architects that refuse to go out into the field to observe, learn from the trades, and solve problematic situations which come up.
I have learned a lot from my site visits. I am amazed at how many trades out there are surprised when I show up for a site visit. Some think I'm from Immigration. I hope that some of the trades out there have also learned a thing or two from me. I know it's hard for a old dog to learn new tricks but communicating can only create a better understanding of the intent of the drawings and design, as well as teach how things come together in the field.
I'm not a CAD guy myself. I've seen good CAD drawings, and really bad. I recommend that all of the trades review the drawings before the construction starts. There are no stupid questions out there. Ask the architect why? Enlighten him/her is you think why not.
There are jerks out there that parade as architects. I bet you a number of them really aren't.
We can all get along!
<<We can all get along!>> (to paraphrase Rodney King)
Bless you Joe! Why...I feel a new day a-dawnin' and de little birds be singin' and Ahm gettin' kinda weapy jus a thinkin' 'bout it (moment of silence please in recognition of Joe's outreached, if empty, hand)
;-)
Glad you joined in. What's probably going to happen on my house is I'll be seriously out of $$ after the design work and can't afford to have the archy "administer the contract" as the AIA says(at fee of $150. per hour, travel billed at same rate). So, I'm relying on the builder to work off the prints. The only saving grace here is that this archy always brings in the builder (or some builder, of my choosing, paid hourly as a consultant, if actual builder hasn't been chosen) early in the design work. Archy does more commercial than residential work and has an in-house structural engineer for that reason, so that's a plus in my mind. Cost of engineer's review is included in overall design fee. I'm trying to find my actual builder instead of a consulting builder. Want to bring my builder in by the time we okay the Schematics and the Design Development starts, so he can have full input into the specs.Does this sound workable to you? Also, I thought all the discussion in this thread has been incredibly helpful; printed it out to use. Didn't realize I should've made it clearer that I'm the HO. Wonder what difference that would make in the advice that's been given.
>>What's probably going to happen on my house is I'll be seriously out of $$ after the design work and can't afford to have the archy "administer the contract" as the AIA says(at fee of $150. per hour, travel billed at same rate). So, I'm relying on the builder to work off the prints.<<
The early phase of your "design work" is essential for you and your architect to both focus on the scope of your project. Space layout, room relationships, circulation flow, exterior elevation. Depending on the size of your project and its complexity or simplicity, I would hope you can get this done within 3 meetings. The architect will be spending time also between meeting doing revisions to the design discussed in your meetings. When your "design work" is finalized the architect will then complete the construction drawings with full dimensions and notes on the Foundation Plan, Floor Plans with structural information, Elevations, Building Section, Typical Wall Section, Details, Electrial Plan, HVAC Plan, Plumbing Schematics, Light and Ventilation Schedule, and Specifications. Ask for the Floor Plans, Electrical Plans, and HVAC Plans to be on seperate sheets. Otherwise if all of this is on the same sheet, it's hard for the anyone to follow.
Once the Construction Documents are completed, one more meeting with the architect should suffice to go over all of the drawings to make sure you understand what's what and what's where.
Then, if you haven't decided on the builder yet, have the drawings bid out. If you have decided on the builder, have a final proposal prepared for the construction. Come to an agreement with the builder.
The drawings will get submitted for permit review, and the architect will respond to any comments. Even though the architect is more commercial than residential, the comments should not be very significant.
During the actual construction of your project, the architect should make site visits to see if the work is being done within the intent of the drawings. Some architects will specify how many site visits will be made. Hopefully, this number is not based on how much money he needs for his kids college education.
His "administration of the work" is to make sure the proposal is complete, the work being done is within the intent of the drawings, and the pay requests are for work completed. The architect is also there to answer the builder's questions, and to settle (heaven forbid) and disputes.
Charging by the hour is somewhat open ended and scary. Ask if the architect can set a fee limit, "not to exceed". I usually charge a fixed fee for the whole project as long as the architectural services to be provided are discussed and specified in my agreement with my clients. Then, my experience tells me how many hours I expect to spend on the project.
>>Archy does more commercial than residential work and has an in-house structural engineer for that reason, so that's a plus in my mind. Cost of engineer's review is included in overall design fee. << Great!!
>>I'm trying to find my actual builder instead of a consulting builder. Want to bring my builder in by the time we okay the Schematics and the Design Development starts, so he can have full input into the specs.<<
Excellent. Be sure that you check out potential builder's referrences. Talk with past clients, and don't be afraid to visit the projects the builder has completed. Ask questions about the experience the past clients have had with the builder. Ask what they did not like about the experience.
I think all of the contribution to this thread by all has been very good.
GOOD LUCK! ENJOY THE EDUCATION YOU'LL OF YOUR PROJECT!!
From a surveying aspect, not having the structure situated properly in the lot, and/or not paying attention to the topography of the site.
Done as-builts with houses over drainage/sanitary/PU easements. The corners of the structure should have easily checked ties to any adjacent property lines/corners.
not enuf room for the run of a staircase.
I don't Know what I am doing
But
I am VERY good at it!!
Joe D. Architect makes the point (in an earlier post) that building a house is a cooperative venture. Sounds very altruistic and I'd go with that sentiment, full bore, except that whenever I've dealt with architects they always want the spotlight to be on them alone...until a problem arises with something they drew...or didn't draw. That's when they shift to the "we're all in this together" mode. It's pretty comical really.
I just wish that they'd take full responsibility for reviewing their own work, or pay a qualified builder to review it for them, before submitting it as complete and ready to be built. That would be the adult, responsible approach to a professional endeavor which, by the bye, pays a lot more than the carpenter foreman's wage. You know, the guy who stops and bails you out, time after time, while struggling to finish his own work on schedule.
My other point is about compensation. When any tradesman loses time/income as the result of an error, a mistake or an ommission, find a way to compensate him. Either pay for his lost time or barter with him for an exchange of services.
I have an old barter agreement with an architect which is finally paying off, years later. It was his idea too. Surprise, I'm getting a set of plans for my new home. Of course he's my neighbor so he gets free consultations from me on problems with his hundred year old farm house, any time he invites me over for dinner. ;-)
Edited 4/12/2007 8:51 am ET by Hudson Valley Carpenter
I appreciate what you said. I'm just trying to figure out how to stretch the money to get my house built. As I said to JoeArchitect, there will be a competent builder, either a consulting one of my own choosing or my actual builder (if I can find one in time)who'll be working with the archy and me during the design and specs. stage. And after I pay for all that thinking time, I'm gonna be hurting for money to buy bricks and mortar. My contract with archy is for design only; anything after that is an optional service.How do you think I'd come out with the build if I just take it from there on with just the builder (and the bank) and don't hire the archy to "supervise" the buildout?
<<How do you think I'd come out with the build if I just take it from there on with just the builder (and the bank) and don't hire the archy to "supervise" the buildout?>>
I think, with the members of this board as a constant resource, you'd do just fine...better in fact than if you relied on one person whose heart and head may be in the design but only whose ego would likely be present on the job site.
That's not a snide remark, just a simple observation of behavior. While we each have our place in the design and construction of a home, there are natural boundaries of respect which should be observed. Therefore the architect should remain at his boards, just as the carpenters should spend their time with their tools.
Thanks for providing this topic. If I've digressed from your original question it was with the intention of clarifying relationships as they often exist and as they might be improved.
>>How do you think I'd come out with the build if I just take it from there on with just the builder (and the bank) and don't hire the archy to "supervise" the buildout?<<
Ask the architect about his liability insurance. If the architect is willing to "supervise" then he's legally taking on the responsibilities of the builder, even if you've hired a builder.
I think if you're tight on the money, if you've done your work on checking out the builder, and if you feel the builder fully understands the thoroughly completed drawings prepared by the architect which have been signed and sealed and city approved and permit issued, (I'm going to get hit by lighting here) don't hire the architect for the construction phase services. Those are very big "ifs".
Otherwise, hire the architect to do site observations during the construction to see if the work is being performed within the intent of the drawings. This is not "supervising" the construction.
Glad to hear you say that--that I might get along OK, if all the IFs are met, without having the archy administer the contract. It's not my first choice; my first choice is to get all the expertise I can. But my first choice was to be rich, too, and I haven't managed that.My contract limits the archy's liability to $250K, which isn't much in the scheme of buildings. If money is as tight as I think it'll be by then, I'm thinking I'll see if the archy will just be available to answer the builder's questions rather than sign on for the full administration of contract services. If I can get the builder I want, he shouldn't need too much help, especially if he's been on the team since the design phase. He might need occasional questions answered and I'll just have to hope he doesn't put the archy on his speed dial. Oh--this is important--how did I forget it? There will be a built-in third party inspection on at least some of the performance of the systems. Because the house is being built to comply with the American Lung Assn's Health House program; it requires a certain performance on a blower door test early on, while corrections can be made and has a number of criteria to meet in other areas for certification. It's the most stringent (aside from, perhaps LEEDS, which is rolling
out their residential program this summer) of all the green building
certifications that are out there. My biggest concern is in the air quality and energy efficiency systems.Don't know if you have any further thoughts, but I sure appreciate all your help. In fact, to ALL of you, thanks a lot for your advice. I'm definitely going to be hanging around BT for a good while. Hope there's something I can contribute.
bjAtlanta, I did not read all the posts in this thread , but have a comment or two on what I did read.
I think your idea of the contingency is a good one.
My experience (almost all one of a kind cutom homes) tells me that home owners will add 10% to the budget with dream items.
An extra 5% or less should cover any items overlooked. So that leaves a budget of 85% -90_ of your total spendable $. The architet you have talked to is correct about the builders feel for pricing.
The problem is it becomes an excercise of Ok here is what I have drawn. Can we do it for what we have, can we expand on it, do we have to cut back ? I used to tell clients that if they could tell me what style entry chandelier they had in mind, what type kitchen counters , what floor coverings in general and what bathtub in the Master bath I could come close to a price. Taste in finishes is the big dollar item .
Maybe it's already been mentioned, but have you talked about construction costs with your architect? A lot of times HOs get grandiose ideas with no concept of the assoctiateed costs. Same problem with some architects. Have you figured a construction budget target yet and discussed it with the architects? A lot of finger pointing arises when the budget target is overlooked/blown.
John7g: I meant to answer your question bout the budget. It all seemed, and still seems, like a vicious circle to me. I asked the archy how that was gonna work and was told "I design to the budget. That's one reason I bring a builder in early; they're out there right now building and know current costs better than I do." I thought that sounded right. Because the fact is, I own the land and I'm gonna build a house shortly. The budget will be what I have in my pocket plus what the bank will lend me. There's no other place it's coming from. I tell everybody that upfront. My thinking is that when we nail down a more exact number, I back out 15% to 20% for contingencies, and we design to that reduced figure. How does that sound?
Sounds reasonable to me, kinda. You know your numbers, what's in the bank, what the bank will loan, what your mortgage targets are. It's good to have that overall target as early as possible. You'll find another thread here within the last few months of someone whose architect designed what they wanted but the estimated build cost was something like twice what was expected. The sooner you can nail down a budget target which tends to be a soft target (to a certain extent) the better the whole process will be. Backing off a percentage is a good plan. You paid 286k for your lot, assuming you're spending that much for the house your looking at 42.9k to 57.2k for the 15-20% in contingecies. I'd like to have it nailed down a bit closer than that. 50k in overruns built on a set of plans that should be spec'ed out clear enough to narrow that down early on, seems a bit high. On the other hand you can have that much in contingencies/overruns if you change your mind a lot once the process has begun. Upgrade here, upgrade there. Cha-ching! Focus on building an energy efficient house that will have reasonable costs to own (ie elect & gas bills).
john7q:Good point about the dollar amount of the contingency fund; hadn't thought in terms of how many actual dollars it'd be. I'm just being cautious. From the beginning I've said I want everything that can be spec'd out now to be; scared of allowances. Know what I want, and there won't be any last minute granite countertops and such.What I worry about is things like running into unpredictable excavation, foundation, or materials costs. Last I heard drywall, ex., was floating like the price of oil. Can't control that and can't cut it out either, or substitute anything cheaper.You're right-on about the energy efficiency. This is the house I'll die in, if luck holds out. And on a retirement income. My archy is well known for working in LEED design and I wanted some of those skills put to use in my house. So, I'm paying for that--both the design and the materials/installation. So, the finish materials won't be fancy and the house will be smallish. But like Rich Trethewey from TOH said, when he finally started building his own new house: "I don't need granite countertops; my money's going behind the walls."I'm using Icynene insulation; hydronic infloor radiant heat; low-e argon-filled windows with solid fiberglass frames. It's gonna cost like crazy and can't be changed once we start. Too old to take on a 2nd job if overruns eat us up!
Out of curioisty, if you don't mind me asking, what's smallish in your opinion.
Seems like you've educated yourself pretty well on this. I think excavation is your largest unknown headache. Hope you don't run into Stone Mountain. Even so, throw some $$$ (were we talking conitngency money, weren't we?), drillers, & blasters at it and you'll probably get what you want if it develops. Materias costs... hope for a weak or delayed hurricane season. Be hoping for good old Georgia clay instead of rock as well.
Smallish compared to what everybody who builds custom with an archy and all that is expected to build, judging from the reactions I get. 2500 sq.ft. I hope not much more. You need more space than you'd think when you allow for wheelchair use (I'm real serious about dying there and you never know what shape you'll be in before the end gets here.) Plus a prefab bldg for a woodworking shop out back; it's 16 x 24. All builder has to do is grade with it in mind; I'll do the rest. It's probably the cheapest thing I'll have to pay for.It's no McMansion, for sure, but I wouldn't want that even if I could afford it.