Just bein’ contrary here.
Let’s say whoever hallucinated the plans (maybe she was an architect) got things right. Let’s presume that.
So, what are those common errors the builders make?
Or, am I in the wrong room to be asking this?
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Replies
Ehr...roar? Errr...awr? What means this... error?
All mine are buried under the DW. But NOT junction boxes... right Eric? Eric???
PaulB
Edited 4/10/2007 6:52 pm ET by PaulBinCT
My favorite, you standing with a set of engineered print " But my way is better"
Hey...who ratted me out?PaulB
I will say that standing in the room with the architect and engineer that after explaining my way both agreed it would be stronger and more economical.
That has only happened once but I sure felt like the wiseman in the group of educated people that day.
ANDYSZ2WHY DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO FRIENDS AND FAMILY THAT BEING A SOLE PROPRIETOR IS A REAL JOB?
REMODELER/PUNCHOUT SPECIALIST
yeah, that's reeeaaalllll funny![email protected]
You do know that your known as Eric "junction box" Paulson dont you!
Doug
You must think I look good behind bars, eh?
I will not go to jail, I will not go to jail......................[email protected]
Jboxes are coming to be known as Ericboxes across the land now
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
E-Box??
Only if I can patent it.[email protected]
.....keep it up.[email protected]
<All mine are buried under the DW>
Uhh - do you ever miss her?
Forrest
When I get lonely at least I know where to find her...PaulB
Just tap on wall, if there's a tap back everyone's OK.
One I was guilty of, not measuring the foundation and comparing dimensions to the prints.
I squared it up, but the foundation subs measured off a brickledge to set a parrallel pan.
So the house was 4" off. I didn't catch it until after it was too late. It was a 2 story house where everything was packed in and I needed that 4".
I will remember before I forget.
I saw that post Matt.
Since you are on the money side of things and I am on the work side of things by our converstion in the past. :)
What makes someone a primaddonna?
I will remember before I forget.
What post? ;-)
for me ...
Thinking I know more than the Engineers and Architects, followed by having a tape measure that refuses to adjust the print dimensions to the measurments I make.
Siteing the house, whether it be elevation or geographic orientation.
Bad driveways and not enough turn around room.
Lack of landscaping.
Don't build a tall house on top of a hill.
Inconvenient entrys.
Poor choice of materials.
Give me a few more minutes........................
[email protected]
>Siteing the house, whether it be elevation<
Biggest problem I've seen on my recent work which for some reason has moved to rot & termite repair lately. Need to change that. A few inches extra in elevation can make the world of difference for getting proper elev of siding above grade, allowing the grade to roll the water away more efficiently.
Rushing the schedule when things are running behind...not picking up the phone to let a sub know things are not really ready.
Packing all the finish subs in on top of each other (doors being hung at the same time the floors are being tiled and the ceilings are being textured...yes, I've seen it).
Underestimating materials (no 10-20% extra to allow for culls, cut-offs, etc.)
Taking lowest bids--especially framing.
<Taking lowest bids--especially framing.>
Thankyou so much for saying that. See GC's we are actually worth the extra $2 a sqft.
Good framing is awesome for every sub who shows up later. Bad framing leads to frustration and backcharges.I trimmed a house recently that had me plowing out sheetrock on half of the windows to fit casing...2 or 3 windows fine, but 15--aaargh! Groups of windows with different sill heights, etc.Framers who do a nice job have my greatest respect.
"Packing all the finish subs in on top of each other"OK, now weneed a thread - most common errors of subcontractorsusually when I have too many subs in one place at one time it is because of subs who do not do what they say they will and show up too early or too late
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
--"OK, now weneed a thread - most common errors of subcontractors"Fair enough.I'm blowing of a builder today myself. ;o)Actually, I let him know I needed to look a church kitchen in Fountain City, WI today so it would be silly to make the drive to Lake City, MN after that...so I'm working close to home today. Besides, I'm doing the "Lords' work". There also happens to be a free contractors breakfast today--who can work after a buffet?I occasionally have to call a builder and let them know I am running a day behind. Usually, I can bump other jobs that don't involve other subs. Builders get priority scheduling...not always perfect, but close.The job I'm skippingout on today has the hardwood floor guys and tile guys and rockers in the basement and plumbers in there...they are probably glad I'll be gone today. It was a circus trimming the door to the garage yesterday...five people wanted through during the time I was working on that door.Time for the big breakfast.
most common errors of subcontractors
LoL! That's easy! Working for the wrong GC.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
>> Underestimating materials (no 10-20% extra to allow for culls, cut-offs, etc.) <<
Actually that would be having the right amount of materials on the job at the right time. It goes both ways. What I mean, is if I order 150 extra 2x4s guess what happens? They get used and the trash pile has a bunch of 3' and 4' 2x4s in it. Or, say a trim carp needs one last 1' piece of stair rail at $7.50 a foot in a house and all there is is two 16' pieces in this house and two 1' or 2' pieces in the house next door. Which piece of railing is the trim carp gonna grab? Naturally a 16' piece unless he is paying for the material. It's human nature. I can't blame him - I would too if I were him. What happens if the two 16' pieces aren't there? I go get the cutoffs if I think of it ahead of time, If I don't think of it ahead of time the trim carp goes to get it when he needs it since he just trimmed that other house 3 days ago and probably knows what was was left over.
So, the amount of extra material on the job site has a direct relationship to the cost to build...
I get what you are saying.I am very careful not to waste material. I am casing a house now with random length poplar. Every cut is planned to minimize waste and get the most usable trim from each piece...if I run short one look at the tiny pieces in the cutoff pile and the builder will know he did not supply enough material. This is custom milled stock...so there will be no running to grab a leftover piece from some other job.
"Most common errors made by builders"
Not finding all the errors left by archys
>> Not finding all the errors left by archys<<
Actually, you hit the nail right on the head - almost. :-)
I'll modify that to say: Not finding errors left by other people involved in the project in time.
So for archi/eng/designer 'in time' would be before that portion of the house is built. For subcontractors 'in time' would be before they leave site. Sure, they will come back, but am I gonna call someone to come adjust a door? Problem is, this stuff tends to snowball.
There is a house a few blocks away that was framed, dried in, and then the roof was cut off, walls were chainsawed in sections and lifted off with an all terrain forklift, the deck was cut up and everything was scattered around the lot as if a tornado hit.
Apparently, the house was 3' closer to the neighbors than it should have been and they completely tore it down to move it. One of the strangest things I've ever seen.
Poor judgment is the number one issue that will doom a project. Some guys just don't see the world in the same way the rest of us do and seem to be pulled in strange directions that always seem to cause problems.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
A few years back a buddy of mine had a hard time selling his town house because the whole row was built ~ 10' off from where it was supposed to be built. He was the first to sell so he had jump through all the hoops. As long as the county made a little money off of the mistake, everything turned out OK.
From my perspective, the biggest mistake builders make is not planning ahead.I get a phone call once or twice a week: "How quick can I get a floor system out here? I've got a foundation in and I need it right away".O.K., why the hell didn't you freakin' call me when you started digging the HOLE ??? Didn't you know back THEN that you needed a floor system?.Quotes are the same way. They bring them in and say: "I need a price no this tomorrow morning - The HOs are meeting with the bank tomorrow afternoon"..Fargin iceholes...
Maybe the homeowners should wait until they have all their prices BEFORE they schedule a meeting with the bank ??? Did the GC just find out TODAY that the HO had a meeting set up?.Someone here on BT once said something like: "To the public, a contractor works 24 hours a day and 7 days a week, and has nothing to do tomorrow".I think contractors look at their suppliers in a similar way: "Suppliers work 24/7, and have nothing else to work on right now except my problem that I created by not planning ahead"
Failure to plan ahead on your part does not create an emergency on my part.
"""I think contractors look at their suppliers in a similar way: "Suppliers work 24/7, and have nothing else to work on right now except my problem that I created by not planning ahead"""" Hmmm, You mean you didn't spend yesterday solving my problem that I am not going to know I have until tommorrow?
Man what kind of supplier are you anyway ? ;-)
Our building inspector has a prominent sign by the door that reads:
"Bad planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on our part"
And he has a woman at the front desk that makes sure you understand it when you come in.
Thats funny our woman inspector has that on her door and the man at the front desk to make sure you understand it!
I am scared to death of her.
Here's a good reminder: Poor planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine. I'll help where I can, but, reality can be a ***ch!Bob.
i get many calls asking me to come do a roof now that its ready, Even from builders but about every person that wants to build and save by not having a GC, Everybody thinks the subs are sitting having coffee waiting to jump on there job tomorrow, And there put out if you dont jump, I love those little comments like ,,, No body wants to work anymore,,,, Im gonna build somemore give me a cheap price and you will be on my list when im as big as the Donald,,,,,, My last guy was a bum and im sueing him for everything he has,,, How about you use some of my guys???
"...give me a cheap price and you will be on my list when im as big as the Donald..."
I get that a lot too. "This one is just a prototype. Once we get the bugs worked out we're gonna build dozens of 'em."
No one has yet done that in the ~20 years I've been doing this. The amount of hot air that comes out of their mouth seems to be inversely proportional to their skill level.
When you talk, you only hear what you already think. When you listen, you hear what others think
Boss,
Over the years I have heard that more from GC/Developers than from homeowners.. "Here chase this carrot".. Give a break on this one and I have 6 more houses for you . Of course that turns into , "Gee I didn't do as well as I had hoped on the first one, but if you work with me then you will make it on the other 5.." Which turns into .. "Joe Blank gave a price 10$ less than you , can you match that and you get the last 4 I promise." Sorry I broke my traces many moons ago.. I don't chase carrots
For me Boss hit it, lack of planning.
Builders can have a tendency to ride on their past successes which can lead to a false ego front. They get excited about the seemingly large amount of $$ they think they'll walk away with from a bid and then they go gangbusters without thoroughly going through the job to make more $$, in doing so things get overlooked, time passes, the cheap sub fell through, there's a lot of redo's etc etc. A well laid plan is one's best friend.
I will be the first to say that I have been guilty of all of the above and much more. It's why I do a lot of subbing now, and why I'm on my own with no employees.
Most builder's comfort zones are in swinging the hammer and not pushing the pencil, and they stay there. You make more money pushing the pencil more and swinging the hammer less.
Again...guilty as charged.
Prefixing a meeting discussion regarding a problem with "Nah, we don't need to do dat,... my gut feeling say that we can skip the.....nail the hell out of it with.....and dat'll be just fine....you won't notice a thing except for a little bounce".
Forgetting their priorities. Which are, in order;
The Contract,
The Business, and
The Construction.
SamT
There are three kinds of people: Predaters, Prey, and Paladins. For the life of me, I can't see why Prey feels safer from predators by disarming and emasculating Paladins.
Hey what about the client?
Now thats funny!
Lets not assume anything, the worse mistake that I ever made was trying to convince a architect that plus or minus a foot didn't compute, duh; this really happened!
Putting a $5 doorbell on a $2.7M house.