Hello All,
I recently installed three (3) motion sensing lights on the exterior wall of my workshop. The lights I selected have an “accent” lighting feature that serves to light the area at, say, 50% light output then when the fixture senses motion it comes on to its full brightness. Also, the accent light feature can be set to turn off after several hours-presumably an energy saving feature. When the accent feature is off, the motion sensing feature still works all night long.
The light fixtures seem to work as intended, however I had reason to walk out to the shop early this morning (to watch the Perseid meteor shower). I was avoiding the motion sensing field and as I approached the shop, I noticed that the bulb in each of the fixtures had a faint glow. The filaments in the light bulbs were illuminated very faintly, which I could not notice from the house.
It’s almost as though voltage is “leaking” to the fixtures, but not enough to fully illuminate the bulb.
For what its worth, the lights are on an individual 20 amp circuit with a wall switch inside the shop.
Does this sound normal for light fixtures with these features? Calls to the manufacturer were not very helpful. I suspect I got a call center not staffed with product experts.
I’ve always found good advice here at FHB in the past. I’d appreciate any thoughts or troubleshooting ideas you all could share.
Regards,
BillB
Replies
Hard to say whether it's "normal" for your fixtures, other than the fact that all 3 are doing it so I imagine it's a design flaw. There's really no liklihood of voltage leaking through the circuitry other than an inherent problem in the design. On the plus side, having a tiny trickle of voltage reduces the thermal shock of the bulb cycling on and off and probably will extend the bulb life ;)
PaulB
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Paul,
Thanks for the reply. I guess I've been worried that I did something wrong. Fire is my real concern. Event hough I double and triple checked the wiring diagrams provided my the light manufacturer, I am still concerned 'cause it doesn't seem right to me.
Thanks again for weighing in.
Bill
There was another post about motion lights a while back. As I remember, the general consensus was that they were not made well, and if there was a problem, switch them out.
I know this doesn't answer your question. But if they are made a cheaply as possible with circuit boards in them, what are you going to do?
They are working.
Will Rogers
BillB, I believe you are correct, that the voltage is "leaking" out. This is true because unlike a regular mechanical switch they use power electronics to switch. As such it introduces a very high impedance to interupt the current (but not infinite like a mechanical switch would do).
For my own education, is the fixture and the motion sensing in one unit?
Also, are you using incandescent light bulbs, and if you don't mind can you tell me the brand you are using. I may have an application for these myself.
Thanks
Hello Plate,
The fixtures are decorative wall mounted lights located adjacent to each garage door. The motion sensor is inside the finial on top of the fixture, as indicated by a black glass or plastic "lens" mounted in the base of the finial. For bulbs, they are typical GE screw base soft white (I believe that is PAR 36, but could be mistaken).
Would I be correct that if current is leaking across the electronic switching inside the light, that the only remedy is to replace the fixture? Is there a method to measure so as to confirm the problem?
Thanks for your reply.
Bill
Bill, I would try to increase the wattage of the bulb just to see the effect (even though it may not be what you want in the end). Does the "glow" that you see disappear?
Changing the light bulb has the effect of lower the resistance seen by the electronics. It may be worth a little experimenting here. Also, you may wish to look at the instructions for any clues (although instructions are usually very lacking).
I like the features that those lights provide, although there may be some differences between brands (due to design and cost). I don't how one would know ahead of time with out purchasing and installing.
> Is there a method to measure so as to confirm the problem?
If you can get access to the individual hot and neutral wires feeding the unit, you can measure the leakage current with one of those clamp-around ammeters. This'll give you an idea how much power -- and money -- this is costing. The current, though, is likely to be so low as to be hard to measure. If you temporarily splice in some more wire, enough to get ten turns through the meter's jaws, you can divide by ten to measure small currents.
-- J.S.
Good Morning John,
Thanks for that suggestion. It's the first analytical one I've come across. I have an electrician scheduled to come to my place to do some other work. I will discuss the topic with him. Thanks for a good suggestion. Even though my original post is getting old, I still haven't found a permanant solution.
Bill
I remembered this posting when recently I experienced a similar phenomonon. I also have mounted three of the motion sensor light with three heads that use halogen bulbs. They have been working fine for more than a year when I parked a used car I bought for my son just under one of the lights.
That night I noticed the bulbs were glowing at a low level. There had been a power disruption so I assumed that the motion sensor circuitry had been damaged. The next day, I could still detect the glow even in the daylight.
But--and this is what is so interesting--when I moved the car, the glow stopped. I am now wondering if the lights are reflecting off the car metal causing a feedback loop. You might want to check for any metallic surfaces that could reflect the light back to the sensor.
Terry
No, man - they were TALKING.
I tell you, SkyNet's almost self-aware.
Forrest
If you have next door neighbors, have you noticed if they've recently been buying window shades because of your security lights? I guess we urbanites are scared of darkness, even if it means we can't now walk outside and see any of the constellations we knew so well as kids. I find those security lights somewhat laughable, because when I was in the military, I found that bright focused lights created shadows within which I could hide. They tended to blind onlookers so that I wasn't seen in the dark areas they created. It's a natural aspect of our eyes that one needs to scan in the darkness instead of looking directly, and any glare complicates that process.
I agree 100%. If I can see your light I can't see your burglar.I have lots of motion lights but the only ones that have PAR38s in them are the ones that shine out towards the woods (1) and the set that light up the pool like daytime (that I keep turned off when the grandkids are not here). The rest provide soft lighting that is enough to get around but do not give you that stallag 17 look.
There is nothing that says you need 300 watts of flood light every time a raccoon walks by. Most of my outside lights have 15w sign bulbs in them but I have a lot of lights.
Yeah, I'm really fond of the guy up the street with twin 300s on a low/high. When it goes high, the neighborhood's lit up 3 houses down, and for what? So we can see his driveway better?