To my friends at Breaktime,
I recently completed a bar for my basement. The bar will be mounted directly to the wall on one side. Because I added a slightly thicker top (got a great deal on some butcher block tops), my electrical two gang box is about 3/8″ to 1/2″ too low when the cover plate is installed. (Cover plate keeps the bar top from being installed flush with the wall).
Because of the position of the switches and position of the overhead light, I’d like to move the box up a little bit.
Is there a best practice on this? I was thinking of removing the box and moving it up 1/2″ and using an oversized switch cover plate. My other thought move the box up and fill the gap with some mud. I’m not much for drywall work though.
Anyway, if anyone has any thoughts I would really appreciate it.
Thanks!
Patrick
Replies
Do you have access from the back? If so you can maybe move the box without having to open a larger hole. But if you don't have access from the back you'll probably have to open a larger hole to move the box. Drywall mudding is easy. It's the painting that's a PITA.
Note that if any wires are fed from the bottom there may not be enough slack to move the box.
Have you considered just cutting the bottom edge off the cover plate? So long as the top doesn't block access to the screws holding the bottoms of the switches/outlets in place this should be OK.
happy?
Thanks for the response. I agree that the painting is the hard part (and getting everything to match). Drywall is out of my league...The wires are fed from the top, so moving the box up isn't a problem. I did think about cutting off the bottom of the cover plate, but I'm going for a professional looking installation with the bar and whatnot. I would imagine cutting the cover plate is not really approved. (I wouldn't cut it if the device mounting screws would be exposed), But, maybe I'm wrong? That would be the easiest way out, that's for sure. Maybe somebody will make my day and tell me there aren't any issues with trimming the plate a little.Thanks!
Patrick
Either raise the box or lower the bar.
If you cut the cover plate, it won't look right.
The bar will likely be there for a very long time, right. A little extra work now and you'll be pleased with it for all that time. Take a short cut and it will thumb its nose at you every time you look at it, for all that time. ;-)
"A job well done is its own reward. Now would you prefer to make the final payment by cash, check or Master Card?"
All that mounting plate is doing is covering the stuff underneith so you don't slide your hand into the works as you plug something in. If you go o the HW store, you will see alot of variety in the face plates you can put on. You could get a wood plate that you could alter and even restain to accent the colors in the bar. There are even smaller faceplates you can buy that might even fit in the new space.
Personally, I think the easiest soulution would be to get an unbreakable nylon faceplate, then cut the bottom to size. After the bar top is mounted, caulk the bottom edge of the faceplate to the bar surface.
You're making this much harder that it has to be.Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Yeah. If you use a larger plate to cover the hole you'll have to cut the bottom off of that one too.
If ignorance is bliss why aren't more people
happy?
I can't argue with taste, but to me a non-symetrical cover plate will always look like a mistake. Maybe if it "flows" well into the bar top as you suggest it would look OK. I don't see it though.
"A job well done is its own reward. Now would you prefer to make the final payment by cash, check or Master Card?"
Ya' know, what we haven't even begun to discuss is whether to orient the slots in the cover screws vertically or horizontally.
Horizontal orientation might be nice juxtaposed with the long horizontal line of the new bar, but a vertical orientation might philosophically be in keeping with the "up-down" motion of the actual switch.
Then again, there is the "radial" school of thought, in which all slots point to their respective corners, to give an exaggerated sense of perspective.
Last, of course is the "devil-may-care" or "joie de vivre" approach which dictates an inherent lack of dictation, that is, a random, dare one say "haphazard" orientation . . .
This is what makes designing so difficult!
:-)
Forrest
You plan for orientation of the cover screws? Darn commie. They pre-plan everything. ;-)
"A job well done is its own reward. Now would you prefer to make the final payment by cash, check or Master Card?"
That's a no0brainer.......everybody knows.....
Vertically.....it's a switch plate.
Horizontally works best for outlets (120V-15 amp, duplex)......It offsets the vertical slots for the plugs.
;-)
Ya' know, I've always wondered! Thanks - no, really, I mean it!
Forrest
I thought your post was funny so........ I wuz just BS-ing, playing along.....
But what do you do when you have a switch and receptacle in the same box.
OK.....I'll play along.....;-)
Easy....place a call to the Architect, Home Owner, Const Mgr etc. (get their answer in writing).
Or.....you put the ones at the switch vertical, and the ones at the outlets horizontally.
Or..... all at 45 degrees.
Or.....you get the new guy to do it, and blame him for doing it wrong.
Or.....you just do it the way you always have.
(Actually, I put them all vertical,,,,,just having fun here)
Does anyone other than us ever notice which way the screws are oriented?
>>Does anyone other than us ever notice which way the screws are oriented?
No. But now you got me feeling like a hack for not taking attention to every detail to that level. ;-)
"Let's get crack-a-lackin" --- Adam Carolla
......just bondo the screw slots and then with no thought whatsoever........reorient the whole thing and then paint it to blend in.
.
.
'Wer ist jetzt der Idiot?'
>>"......just bondo the screw slots and then with no thought whatsoever........reorient the whole thing and then paint it to blend in
I like that 'cause it saves a lot of electricity. ;-)
"Let's get crack-a-lackin" --- Adam Carolla
But if you put the outlet horizontally the electricity doesn't flow evenly out of the slots -- too much settles to the bottom and backs up in the narrow slot.
If ignorance is bliss why aren't more people
happy?
Man, you know it. And come wintertime, it pools on the floor and you get that nasty shock on doorknobs!
Forrest
Yeah......but thats the "hot" slot, so it'll be OK.
Gotta remember not to turn it to the left and get the wide "neutral" slot downwards....that could cause a lot of problems.
Non symetrical will look worse just on its own just against a wall, of course. I could see this as an opportunity to make a really cool faceplate though - one that was designed to come up from a near perpendicular surface. Instead of being a plate on a wall, it could be like a marker growing up from the surface.
OOO! Just thought of another possibility: Surface mounted gang box. The kind that are plastic or metal and are ment to mount on top of the wall. No cutting of any kind needed, just maybe a pigtail to lengthen the wire to the outlet.Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
I understand that both painting and repairing a drywall patch can be a pain in the butt - but neither is hard.Afew tips from an admitted non-expert:Use powder-mixed setting type compund.Do the fill repair in 3-4 applications - that way the final application is merely a thin topcoat.After the first 2-3 app. of setting type, use regular drying-type (premixed usually) compund for the final coat.Prime, and then do a first coat of paint using a thicker than normal roller cover. The small ones work real well for a small repair. Using a thicker nap will give a bit more texture to the smooth repair.And finally follow the painting golden rule - "If it looks like crap when it's wet, it'll look like crap when it's dry.Also, most folks have no idea what it really means to "feather" into the existing paint. Very important to taper off the strokes to keep the repair as un-noticeable as possible.Having said all that, some finishes do not lend themselves to patching in the paint and sometimes you have to do the entire plane - you'll never notice different paint past a corner.Good luck,Julian Tracy
You don't need to make a bigger opening, for acess, to move it up.
Use a metal cuting blade in a recep saw (or a single ended hacksaw blabe) and cut the nails between the box and the stud.
You will need to cut out DW for where the box will go. Then run screws through the side ofthe box into the stud.
Bill,My basement will be all the better because of your all great advice on my various projects. However, won't I still have the 1/2" gap at the bottom of the box after I've moved it up?Thanks!
Patrick
Edited 3/31/2006 2:18 pm ET by Corrib
Yes you will stiff have the 1/2" at the bottom.I gathered from the tone of the some of the message that a bigger hole would have to be made to "rescue" the box and reset it.I was assuming that the either the plate or oversize plate would cover it.If you want to patch it just flat tape it. That is just put tape over the gap and coat with mud. Now it won't be very strong, but after you put a cover plate on it you won't have much, if any, that is exposed that would put pressure on it.
Then run screws through the side ofthe box into the stud.
Careful, that is a Code violation
Art. 314.23 (1) Supports. Nails and screws where used as a fastening means, shall be attached by using brackets on the outside of the enclosure, or they shall pass through the interior within 1/4" of the back of the enclosure
Art. 314.43 Nonmetallic boxes. Provisions for supports or other mounting means for nonmetallic boxes shall be outside the box so as to prevent contact between the conductors in the box and the supporting screws.
I am still waiting?http://forums.prospero.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=71180.117&search=y
Can you buy a blank cover plate and simply cut new openings for the toggles?
Maybe asymetrical but will have finished edges all around.
bum
For a small gap like you're going to have, I've uesd the foam in a can to fill the gap.
Make sure you cover everything you don't want to get foamed; it's tough to clean up.
Once the foam has dryed, just cut it flush to the sheetrock. I usually skim coat it with joint compound, but if the switch plate will cover, you can skip that step.
As long as the feed wires are from above, how about moving it up 4 or 5 inches and make a backsplash to cover the back edge of the bar and the old hole?
It is just as much work to move it up a little as a lot.
Terry