I’m moving some windows as part of a remodel. I’ll have to take out the old headers and put in new ones in somewhat different locations. The wall isn’t load bearing.
Am I correct in believing that I don’t need to set up jacks for support before I pull out and move the headers like I would if this were a load bearing wall?
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Replies
If you're right and the wall is only carrying its own weight, then yes. I do, however, have reservations about it when you talk about windows in a non load bearing wall. Is this wall not exterior? Or is this a commercial job?
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
I'm doing the work myself, but I'm working from plans drawn up by an architect. He told me that this wall is not load bearing. It's an exterior wall on a ranch, and it's not one of the walls that the trusses are sitting on.
sounds like it might be a gable end wall. is it? if so it will be theoretically non-loadbearing but IME it'll have some odds and ends of weight on it from somewhere in the structure. i would hesitate about a header-less opening in an exterior wall.
Like you say, gable end walls on trussed roofs do support load - though it may be small. Maybe he has something like a porch where the porch is covered by the main house trusses and the load points for the trusses are out at the porch beam. In that case, the exterior wall between the porch and the main house would be non-load bearing,
Headers in non loadbearing walls are there for a reason. The reason is lateral pressure.
That's right. Lateral pressure as in wind forces acting on the window. No header = no resistance ( or reduced resistance ) to those forces.
Do not remove without an engineers approval
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I'm not sure if I understand your answer. I'm not planning to get rid of the header. I'm planning to move it so I can put in a new window. My question is whether I'm all right taking it out long enough to move the header without setting up jacks or something to support the structure.
I think everyone is hesitant to answer your question directly because we can't actually see your situation. Also you have not really fully explained the situation. You just told what the architect said. Most all architects are good or great at drawing nice looking and functional buildings - not all really have as much of an in depth knowledge of the nuts and bolts of building as they think they do.
You say you're planning on moving it. Is that 9" to the left, wider overall to allow for a larger window in about the same spot, or four feet to the right and you'll be creating a new opening??? BUIC
Any chance you can post a picture or two?
And FWIW - you ain't gonna go wrong doing temporary supports...
the old "when in doubt"...take the conservative route and CYA.
DUM SPIRO SPERO: "While I breathe I hope"
OK, I'll try to do a better job of explaining this.
First, if I understand the term, it is a gable end wall. I have a gable roof, and the wall I'm working on is parallel to the trusses.
I'm completely redoing the windows in this wall. For example, right now I have an opening that is 6' wide. It has a header that is made up of 2 2x8s. I need to take out this opening and frame a new (6' wide) window that will be about 3' to the left of the current opening. I'm planning to do this in two steps for a couple of reasons. First, I'm going to take out the existing header and put in studs every 16 inches. Then, I'm going to create a new opening 3' to the left, with a new header.
Does that help?
If I need to, I'd be happy to put up a temporary support while I'm working on this, but I don't see how to do this since the trusses are parallel to the wall.
gable wall - the vertical triangular wall between the sloping ends of gable roof (depicted below by the "+" signs for the roof slope and "|" for the vertical walls):
+
+ +
+ -----top plate------ +
| |
| |
| |
| ______floor _____|
That's a quick n dirty approximation of a gable end wall. If I understand you correctly, your trusses form the triangular pitch of the roof, and the wall you're working on is the square (or could be more rectangular even) portion of the wall that's underneath the top plate (the uppermost horizontal line I've placed in the diagram above, which would be parallel to the lowest horizontal member of your roof trusses).
You have a 6' wide window in your wall with an existing 2 x 8 standard (doubled up) header above it, in the framing. You seek to remove the existing bay or doubled window, and remove the existing header - and relocate the existing header into a new Rough Opening (RO) for another 6' wide window, to be located about 3' farther to one side than the existing RO for the existing window.
Have I got understood your situation correctly?
Can you tell us if you have the interior side of the wall exposed? I tend to think you DO because you've described the existing header to us already...
Reusing the existing header for the same size RO for same size window in new placement in the wall shouldn't be an issue. But you'll need to get it out of its existing location first.
Keeping the wall structurally "stiff" (can't think of the word I'm searching for in my mind right now - argh! sux gettin' old...) - and the structure "tight" through your endeavor is your goal. Keeping the TOP PLATE stabilized in its current location while you do your RO relocation in the wall, is what I'm talking about when I mentioned earlier the temporary supports. It's what I WOULD do but please know - I'm a DIYer, formerly married to a framing carpenter (built additions and our own home together, then divorced), and I am a degreed engineer. So be warned: I got nothing on these guys here on BT so bear that in mind... I'm sure any misinformation I dare write here will get clarified in no time flat sometime tomorrow!!! (least, I hope so!)
I'm sure the pros will be along soon to further clarify and help. But til then, please at least confirm that what you have is indeed a gable end wall like I've shown above as that IS a correct definition and depiction.DUM SPIRO SPERO: "While I breathe I hope"
Yes, you've described my situation exactly.
Good morning.
Got about 3 minutes then have to head off to work so typing rather quickly...
Are you doing this job by yourself?
What is the exterior sheathing on the wall and exterior finish? (Pretty curious what you have to deal with: OSB and vapor barrier and vinyl siding? or what?)
If you're doing this by yourself and the new "end" of your relocated window is basically at the MIDDLE of your old RO's location, you're in essence going to be placing a king stud (bottom plate to top plate) with a sistered 2x4 next to it to serve as the support for header (or, as other poster mentions - at least 2x4 horizontally) - called a "trimmer" in some parts of the country or "jack" in others... and that combined king and trimmer are gonna be pretty much right in center of your old RO. So that they're gonna support the old RO without the old window while you move to the side to frame the 3' extension to create the new 6' RO.
Gosh - hope that makes some sense to ya.
Seems you've confirmed you have a gable wall. Would encourage you ck in attic for any contact between the bottom CHORD of your roof truss and the wall's top plate.
DO tell if you're doing this by yourself and answer the other questions above if you would please.
Someone will probably ask you to "fill in your profile" by clicking on your name in box "to" above...at some point too.
Gotta git - will ck in later and hopefully the smarter dudes here will help assure nothing I say steers ya wrong...DUM SPIRO SPERO: "While I breathe I hope"
A gable end wall is usually not load bearing if the trusses do not bear weight on it. Since the trusses are parrellel and do not bear on this end wall, then it definately sounds like the wall is basically, non-load bearing. Typically, a door or window in a non load bearing wall does not have a doubled 2x for a header. A single 2x4 framed on the flat with cripples above is sufficient. However, some carpenters forgoe the cripple studs and to save time, put in a double 2x that extends down from top plate to header height.
Any time I come across doubled 2x headers, I immediately suspect the wall is load bearing. It may not be , but it does give cause for concern.
If you have direct acces to the attic and can see that the rafters or trusses do not bear on said gable wall, then frankly, you have no cause for concern. Remove your windows, reframe accordingly and install your new windows....period.
Davo
Boss:
Can you comment on the above posting?
Assuming the guy knows what he's talking about, and this is indeed a gable wall - The whole deal doesn't bother me.A gable truss can typically span 6 or 8' with no support. (Depends on loading, which we don't know in this case) If you want to temporarily support a gable truss, the simplest way it probably to get up in the attic and nail a header to the studs. I don't know of any way to do it from below.Don't know that I could add anything else...
Why isn't eleven pronounced tenty one?
Thanks Ron... Really though I was asking about the .13 post, not about the origional question. So you are saying that a gable end truss is usually non-load bearing... Why is it that when I look at the truss shop drawings for gable end trusses, they most always require continious support?
Sorry - I didn't realize you were talking specifically about that post. I didn't see anything seriously wrong with the post by "Davo". He makes some assumptions about how headers are "typically" done that aren't true around here. But that's a minor regional thing. .You asked about gable truss drawings showing continuous bearing - They generally HAVE continuous bearing, so that's what's shown on the drawing. What I meant was that they typically *CAN* span a few feet unsupported if they need to.
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