Who has them and how do you like them. I’m looking a the T80 for a radiant floor and the super store45 for the domestic hot water.
I’d like to hear from others before I have a Condensing Boiler installed.
Also is the hot water output from the super store45 going to keep up in a three bedroom home?
Thank you for your help,
Garett
Replies
The Munchkin boiler made by Heat Transfer Products is very popular in this area. There were a few control problems with early units but they appear to have been resolved for several years now. I am installing a one in a house I am building for myself now and have several neighbors and friends with them. They also use HTP's Super Stor Ultra stainless water heaters: http://www.htproducts.com/products/ssultra/index.html
They recently came out with a new model, the VWH. It is 96% vs 93% efficient. Have not seen one yet. http://www.htproducts.com/products/munchkinvwh/index.html.
There is a good radiant forum here:
http://www.heatinghelp.com
---> the "Wall" forum
Plenty of folks that know all about boilers there.
I have installed 3, all 80's. Used the larger storage tank for the domestic hot water on two of the systems, one syetem has three bath, laundry and kitchen, I am sure that if it not keeping up I would have heard.
Thanks for the help guy's.
Garett
Make sure you get the vision control package, w/ outdoor reset. Good stuff.
I have a 140m. Not a day of trouble in 3 years.
How many showers in the morning? I would suggest a larger tank because 80Kbtus will probably not keep up with 1 shower continuously. Certainly not 2 concurrent users.
Some folks will run a plain storage tank in conjunction with a hot water recirc system to increase storage capacity without buying a larger indirect.
We've been doing a mixing valve at the indirect to give you more hot water. The 80 Peerless we put into the bosses house has a 30 gallon (!) indirect and he has plenty of hot water for 3 people.
"We've been doing a mixing valve at the indirect to give you more hot water. The 80 Peerless we put into the bosses house has a 30 gallon (!) indirect and he has plenty of hot water for 3 people."
Different results for me.
My shower is somewhat high flow, but 2 of us definately deplete what is in the tank showering. That's a 40 gallon tank @140 degrees. With the 140kbtu model, the boiler can keep up after the tank is depleted (though the water temperature does drop, requiring shower valve adjustment). With 80kbtu, I just do not think it could provide endless water in this way.
I intalled an NTI (New York Thermal) Trinity model unit in my house. I'm about 1/2 completed with conversion to radiant floor heat in my house. I removed the steam boiler this year and made up the other 1/2 heat with oil filled electric radiators. I also got rid of our standard hotwater heater. The NTI unit is tiny and hangs on a wall. I think it's max output is 150k BTU. It also does our domestic hot water without any tank. It can more than keep up with a shower. I had been comparing different high efficiency units and only went with the NTI because I got a good deal on ebay and it doesn't take up any floor space. I think that Munchkin makes a wall hanging unit now too. I wouldn't hesitate to buy either it if I was still in the market. I have had no issues with mine yet.
This is just speculation... I wonder if the actual high efficiency modulating burners in most brands of these units are made by the same company. My NTI is assembled in Canada, but the burner itself is made in Europe, which is the country of origin of many of these units.
If I recall correctly, many units now use the Dungs valve because it offers a phenomenal 5-1 turndown ratio for modulation purposes. The heat exchanger in the NTI Trinity and the HTP Munchkin are similar and are manufactured by the same company in France. I imagine the controls package and the Balance-of-Plant tends to be more home-grown and hence is the biggest differentiator between the units.
My observations regarding Munchkins on the Wall at HeatingHelp.com have been quite positive. For example, while they had a supplier-related issue with their combustion blower fan (Pabst) in units manufacturerd up to a year ago, they responded to inquiries, found the problem, fixed the issue, and retroactively extended the warranty on the blowers. For me, those are all the right signs that a company stands behind its product.
Most issues with all condensing boilers seem to relate to improper installations. I would pay very close attention to detail in following the OEM instructions or trouble may result. These units are racehorses, great performance when treated right, but temperamental when abused. As with any small boiler that does double-duty as a water heater, I would consider a 40 Gallon minimum, 60 gallon average IDWH that also has a mixing valve.
Lastly, if you're serious about the Munchkin, get Vision 1 certified or have someone install the unit that is Vision 1 certified. Otherwise, you won't be able to access all the functionality of the unit.