So, I’m try to pull a permit to remodel my basement.
I’d like to use the method outlined by Building Science Corp and talked about in here off and on:
http://www.eere.energy.gov/buildings/building_america/pdfs/db/35017.pdf
The first problem:
City code enforcers are saying I can’t build the wall like that unless they have some sort of proof that it’s an approved method and then they tossed out acronyms like ASTM and UL and the like.
Now, the fact the above publication is ON a .gov site seems to be in my favor, but I don’t see any ‘official stamp of approval’ on that document. It’s written by a PHD and does state:
“This work was supported by the U.S. Department of Energy, Office of Building Technologies, State and Community Programs, Building America Program, George James, Program Manager.”
Think that’ll be enough?
For those of you that have finished basements in this manner, did you have to butt heads with the code folks? Any other suggestions?
The other issue is that I’d like to use mold resistance sheetrock for obvious reasons. I think there’s been some talk of this stuff in here recently. I was originally going to use Densarmor but given the weight and rough finish, people have recommended that I use a ‘mold tough sheetrock’ that you can find at Home Depot and is green (see this thread: http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=94675.1&search=y
)
As soon as I mentioned that, the code person said “oh no…you can’t use that…they don’t even sell that stuff anymore. It adds another vapor barrier which you don’t want”
It seems as if he’s thinking of that older wax green board, eh? Anyone know the specific brand name/model name of this particular sheet rock product so I can print out some white papers on it? (ADDENDUM: actually, I think it is called “Mold Tough”…I’ll start googling that)
Any other advice dealing with imoveable code enforcers appreciated!
Replies
Hi Darrel,
Glad to hear the basement process is underway (or at least trying to be...)
I've done the Building Science method 3 times, and met no resistance with code officials. I'm not sure what you can do to convince them except to cite the sources you mentioned in your post.
There are a number of mold resistant drywalls on the market. Mold Tough is the same color as the old Sheetrock Brand MR (moisture resistant) product, also known as "greenboard". National Gypsum also makes a product called XP, it's got a purple face, and has the same ASTM score as the Mold Tough. Neither is a vapor barrier - so I'm not sure what that guy is talking about...
Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
"Everybody wants to know what I’m on...
What I'm on? I’m on my bike, busting my ### 6 hours a day…
...What are you on?"
- Lance Armstrong
I have a hunch he's thinking 'greenboard'...that (I believe) wax based that used to be used in bathrooms.Well, I'll be sending the documents off to him. Let's see what happens!
Don't necessarily be put off by the DensArmor naysayers. I used it in a basement application recently and it wasn't THAT bad. Sure, some "itchies", and you do have to be careful not to overdrive the screws, and use setting-type compound, but none of those things are a big enough deal to cause you to disregard the product. (Heck, it's not like you'll be using the stuff everyday!) And it's a big improvement over greenboard. Although the surface finish is a bit rough, that pretty much disappeared once it was painted with a roller. All-in-all, I was pleased with the finished result.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
Mike:I've actually used the densarmor stuff when I redid our bath. Being a small bathroom, I didn't have too many seams to paint, but I will in the basement and was a bit worried about having to skim coat the whole thing to get it smooth. Glad to hear it wasn't an issue for you. I'll certainly consider it. However, the main reason I think I'd prefer the Mold Tough stuff is that it appears to be a lot lighter. I have to haul these up 10' from my sidewalk, navigate the narrow halls of our old house, and then down 8' to the basement. ;o)
I didn't find that they were a noticably heavier than greenboard.
But then, maybe that's 'cause I made my wife carry them. ;-)
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
I found out recently that with densarmor if you prime with at least a 3/4" roller and a quality primer (I use Killz waterbase) that the rough drywall/smooth seam look disappeared. It is itchy, which is no fun.
Great tip!Well, I sent all the documentation over. Haven't heard back. Not that I'm surprised. Will report back next week with any updates.
http://www.getmoldfacts.com/products.jsp
" Test Data: Moisture and Mold Data
During the independent lab tests conducted at the time of manufacture per ASTM D3273, "Standard Test Method for Resistance to Growth of Mold on the Surface of Interior Coatings in an Environmental Chamber," the panel score was 10.
This ASTM lab test may not accurately represent the mold performance of building materials in actual use. Given unsuitable project conditions during storage, installation or after completion, any building material can be overwhelmed by mold. To manage the growth of mold, the best and most cost-effective strategy is to protect building products from water exposure during storage and installation and after completion of the building. This can be accomplished by using good design and construction practices.
"
http://www.usg.com/navigate.do?resource=/USG_Marketing_Content/usg.com/web_files/products/prod_details/SHEETROCK_Brand_HUMITEK_Gypsum_Panels.down.html
Then "Sheetrock Humitek Gypsum Panels Data Submittal Sheet WB2327"
Mold tough is the new name for Humitek. Saw it on the Getmoldfacts site.
"Product and The test results listed below ensure that products will perform as intended when designed, specified, installed
Test Data and maintained according to our printed recommendations.
Compliance HUMITEK gypsum panels comply with ASTM C36, C1396.
Per ASTM E136, gypsum core UL-classified as non-combustible.
Per ASTM E84, flame spread is 20; smoke developed is 0.
Moisture and Per ASTM C473, the average water absorption for panels is not greater than 5 percent by weight after
Mold Resistance two-hour immersion.
In independent lab tests per ASTM D3273, ôStandard Test Method for Resistance to Growth of Mold on the
Surface of Interior Coatings in an Environmental Chamber,ö the average panel score was 8. This means the risk of
mold and mildew growth on the panel is minimized.
This ASTM lab test may not accurately represent the mold and mildew performance of building materials in actual
use. Given unsuitable project conditions during storage, installation or after completion, any building material
can be overwhelmed by mold and mildew. To manage the growth of mold and mildew, the best and most
cost-effective strategy is to protect building products from water exposure during storage and installation and
after completion of the building. This can be accomplished by using good design and construction practices.
For additional information, please refer to the supporting literature listed at the end of this document."
PS
I used the DAP and did not have any problems with it itching or with the finishings. But the lighting was not that great. But I sanded the "paper" and that helped a lot. If it was I needed a good finish I would think about Dmix or a least just thin some mud and roll it on and then level it with a blade.
My complete was the weight and the softness of the edges.
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Well, I've sent them two publications from Building Science (including one that's on the Fed gov's Department of Energy site) and citation from ASHRAE, who apparently subscribe to building science's recommendations (via Joe, from Building Science, who was very kind to send that my way) and a copy of the article from FHB from a few years back describing the 'mold free basement' that I happened to have laying around.
I now heard to day that they're apparently looking through it all will get back to me.
Fingers crossed...
Well, good news. After sending them all the data/reports, they seemed convinced that it's a valid system. I can't believe they have never come across this before.
They STILL think the mold-tough sheetrock is greenboard. They can't seem to take the time to click the link to the USG web site I gave them. I gave up on that.
I'm going to use Densarmor without asking. I figure the odds of them even noticing are on my side.