Replies

1. 
   Sphere | Oct 20, 2005 05:42am | #1

   Just buy a PC...trust us. I bet 4 outta 7 will agree with me.

     Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

   "We adore chaos, because we love to restore order"

   Mauriets Chavailier Escher

1. 
   Cooper | Oct 20, 2005 07:33am | #2

   I agree; everyone I know has the Porter Cable....

2. 
   Piffin | Oct 20, 2005 05:41pm | #7

   5/7 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   Sphere | Oct 21, 2005 12:51am | #9

   Thank you ...now help me with my sudoku mathmatics!!!  In the Tavern..I am betting you'd be pretty good at it, if you can find the time.  Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

   "We adore chaos, because we love to restore order"

   Mauriets Chavailier Escher

3. 
   Shep | Oct 21, 2005 01:38am | #11

   and the other 3 will say Bosch

   although I gotta admit I've got a DW 3x21 sander, not the fancy new model, that's pretty good

1. 
   Sphere | Oct 21, 2005 01:44am | #12

   Don't mees up my math son, please..LOL

   I bought my first PC in about 1980..rebuilt the worn out parts 2x..couldn't wait for new bearings or something and snagged a variable speed one about 4 yrs ago..I think belt sanders, I think PC....lets not even get into the races we had across the shop floor...!  Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

   "We adore chaos, because we love to restore order"

   Mauriets Chavailier Escher

1. 
   Shep | Oct 21, 2005 04:14am | #13

   accounting joke- from my wife the CPA

   client- what does 2 plus 2 equal?

   acct.- well what do ya want it to equal, and how much is it worth to ya?

    

   don't blame me- she thinks its funny

1. 
   Danno | Oct 23, 2005 03:43pm | #20

   My Tai Chi teacher came from China many years ago and in his first job interview in the States to work for an insurance company the boss said he didn't know, Mr. Lui being Chinese and all. Mr. Lui asked the guy, "In America, how much is two plus two?" Guy says "Four." Lui says, "Same in China." He got the job.

2. 
   nikkiwood | Oct 20, 2005 08:04am | #3

   I have a PC 3 X 21 that's about 25 years old and still going strong.

   Just tonight I happened on this model at Amazon and noticed it was selling for $139, which is about what I paid for it all those years ago.

   ********************************************************
   "It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."

   John Wooden 1910-

3. 
   darcy | Oct 20, 2005 08:19am | #4

   I agree with Sphere.

   INVEST IN YOUR LIVLEYHOOD!

   If you are doing high-end work, you should be getting paid enough to afford REAL tools!

   But if you like headaches,
   fights with customer service,
   or no customer service,
   or no place to find customer servise,
   or no available parts,
   nor catalog to find your parts...

   By ALL means please buy the Black and Decker!

   When you grow up, you will learn to shop at the REAL Tool Store.

   (Sorry for being caustic, but I sell PROFESSIONAL TOOLS and I have had it up to here with you Harbor Freight people!)

   Moderators, please save me...I have gone off the deep-end! Actually, they pushed me off!

   Aiy!
   y!
   y!
   y!
   y!
   y!
   y!
   y!
   y!.......

   y

   
   

   ---

   Edited 10/20/2005 9:38 am ET by darcy

1. 
   MisterT | Oct 20, 2005 01:46pm | #5

   I have gone off the deep-end! Actually, they pushed me off!

   Aiy!y!y!y!y!y!y!y!y!.......

   Welcome to my world!!!

   actually it's not mine, no one is actually in charge.

   We're one big happy crazy family!!!

   I'll teach you the High Sign...

   First pucker up (your lips)

   second say beeeeeeeeeeeee

   third strum your index finger up and down over your lips.

   Okay like this:

   Beeebleeebbbbleeeleeelllblelleeeeebbbllleeeellllbbllllelllleeeeeeebbllee.

   Kinda makes the rest of the world less grave, doesn't it????

   Wellcome Sister!! 

   Mr. T.  MOTOL

   "They keep talking about drafting a constitution for Iraq. Why don't we just give them ours? It was written by a lot of really smart guys, it's worked for over 200 years, and we're not using it anymore."-- George Carlin

   "I think natural selection must have greatly rewarded the ability to reassure oneself in a crisis with complete bull$hit."

   I'm Swiss!

    

2. 
   blue_eyed_devil | Oct 23, 2005 02:49am | #15

   Darcy, I'm not sure which side of the issue your on here. Was the black and decker a sarcastic comment?

   Also, I'm considering buying my first "chopsaw" because we have a bit of crown to do in the near future and I'm tired of wrestling the cuts. Which do you recommend?

   blue 

1. 
   darcy | Oct 23, 2005 05:23am | #16

   Yeah well, I don't spout off too often, but some weeks I get far too many Harbor Freight, Home Depot, and Lowes customers in my store looking to me to solve their problems. If these poeple had spent ANY money in our store I'd be more than happy to help them out. But they shop at the cheap, or Big Box stores, not even being aware of the fact that we do our best to price match whenever we can.As far as I am concerned, these people only take time away from my REAL customers (Contractors and Woodworkers) who actually purchase quality tools.And yes, B & D sucks in my book. And thank God, we have a Dewalt Service Center here...Want to hear the rest of my rant about Dewalt/Porter-Cable/Delta?Our Rep has not been in our store since I transfered from Chico to Citrus Heights May 9th!!! Heck yeah, she gets her nails done next door but does she bother to poke her head in our store and see waz up? No.Anyway...I recommend the Bosch for sure, tho Makita is solid and Dewalt has come out with a new line....And what is up with Hitachi? Their new one looks like a cross between Darth Vader and ET.darcy

1. 
   blue_eyed_devil | Oct 23, 2005 10:52am | #17

   I hope you feel better now Darcy! Thanks for the free consultation. I'll check out the bosch, and Makita.

   blue 

1. 
   darcy | Oct 24, 2005 08:02am | #25

   I don't know how it is out your way, but my Bosch Rep can have a replacement tool in your hands in 24 hrs if the one you bought happens to fail.Great guy, Dan.Always backs me up.My dewalt/delta/pc rep sucks. Actully, it makes me wonder what that lil' foofy-chick makes?Maybe I should rethink my options here...
   (Ya know, I should start a post about trying to sell tools to ya' all, so's we can dicuss both sides...)

2. 
   blue_eyed_devil | Oct 29, 2005 12:01am | #28

   Awright, I'm game. How much for a cutoff saw?

   blue 

2. 
   jrnbj | Oct 24, 2005 04:52am | #24

   No kidding....is this the end of Hitatchi as we know them...?

2. 
   Jer | Oct 23, 2005 03:13pm | #18

   Blue,

   I have used them all and the top three are Bosch, DW, and Makita as far as I'm concerned.  I have a DW 12" that I have had for 10 years or so  and run the hell out of.  Rebuilt it once, and it still splits hairs.  DW has built a great deal of their industry around this saw, and it still is rated as one of the #1 saws for crown.

4. 
   goldhiller | Oct 20, 2005 05:04pm | #6

   "I'm wondering if it's
   worth it as a "throwaway".

   Sounds to me like you already have a pretty good grasp of what you'd be buying; a flimsy disposable tool. Based on that, I'll admit I looked at/considered one about two mnonths ago when facing alot of horizontal sanding. The thing is nice and light and has that smaller front drum and flip up dealie to access tighter areas.

   The alternative for me was to use my 30 YO 3x21 Skil which weighs a bit more than the Dragster, but has never required any maintenance in all those years. Not even a new switch! And I've run the begeebers outta the thing.

   The PC is definitely a much heavier machine, but there's a reason for that. Higher quality/ longer life. Check out the size of the front drum axle and "bearings" on that Dragster and tell yourself how long just that part alone is gonna survive. It's a disposabe tool, for sure.

   I'm pretty certain that the Dragster won't stand up to heavy continuous usage without letting it cool down periodically. It'd likely heat up and smoke the windings if you really used it. Therein might be your saving grace in extending the value of your dollar. The dealer here gives 30 day over the counter replacements on the Dragster...no questions asked. I think you catch my drift. It would be unfortunate if the thing self-destructed in that thirty days. <G>

   As for me, I decided to put up with the extra weight of the old Skil and the job got done. It lives on yet. Really amazing.

   Edit: Shoulda said horizontal *holding* of the sander/arms. Chest high or so. Completely stripping/removing all of the old paint and then sanding all of the lap siding on a house. Total back-to-bare-wood prep for a new paint job. What fun. It's done.

   Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.

   Edited 10/20/2005 10:17 am ET by goldhiller

   Edited 10/20/2005 10:10 pm ET by goldhiller

   
   

   ---

   Edited 10/20/2005 10:14 pm ET by goldhiller

5. 
   desertrat | Oct 20, 2005 05:48pm | #8

   Naww, get a Rockwell.  I've go two of them that are over 30 years old and running just great.

1. 
   Piffin | Oct 21, 2005 01:27am | #10

   Wanna guess what rockwell has devolved into?
    

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

2. 
   wrudiger | Oct 21, 2005 06:20am | #14

   "Naww, get a Rockwell.  I've go two of them that are over 30 years old and running just great."

   Amen, brother!  It'll wake the dead in the next county, but it'll run back-to-back 8+ hour days at that same steady roar.

   One positive with the heavy sanders is that the weight can really work for you - as long as you aren't trying to sand siding or something like that - then God help you!

6. 
   Jer | Oct 23, 2005 03:16pm | #19

   I have a heavy Makita 4x24 and want a lighter one myself.  3x21 is a good size, and I like the PC except it's not really designed to turn upside down and clamp to a bench.  The Bosch and Makita are, and that's an imprtant detail for me.

1. 
   Danno | Oct 23, 2005 03:45pm | #21

   Clamped upside down to a bench? How do you race 'em that way?! ;-)

1. 
   Jer | Oct 23, 2005 08:53pm | #22

   I came into the racing game rather late and was horrified when I heard about it.  Inwardly however , with curiosity well piqued, I yearned to give it a try.  Finally one bright spring day when no one was around but me and my son, I took the Makita and 100' of cord out to the top of our long driveway and let her rip.  It was one of those Kodak moments locked in for the rest of my life and probably his.

1. 
   mrfixitusa | Oct 24, 2005 01:58am | #23

   I have a makita belt sander and although I haven't used it all that much I think it's an excellent sander.I believe it's a 4 X 24 and I can turn it on and just lay it upside down on a bench top and use it that way (I don't have to clamp it down - it's heavy enough that it just sits there).I'm not the expert but a few years ago I though everyone was saying that makita makes the best tools? Agree?

2. 
   Danno | Oct 29, 2005 01:45am | #29

   Oh, yeah? I bet my (shoot, I don't even know what brand my belt sander is--probably a Craftsman) can beat your Makita! ;-) (Can you imagine the little parachure popping out the back at the end of the quarter rod? (knew it couldn't be a mile--really a rod's too short and a quarter of a rod would be way too short--quarter football field would never catch on!)

7. 
   Ribeye | Oct 24, 2005 09:10am | #26

   I was faced with the same situation a couple of weeks ago.  I did pick up to Craftsman version of the "Dragster" (I like the looks a lot better than the B&D and it was $10 less at Sears than at HD.)

   It won't win any belt sander drag races, that's for sure. But as long as you respect its capabilities and use it within them, it does a pretty darned decent job!

   -- Steve

   Enjoy life & do well by it;

   (it might well be the only chance you get.)

1. 
   DustyandLefty | Oct 27, 2005 10:47pm | #27

   If you get the B&D dragster for light duty work and for under-the-toe-kick plate duty (very handy), be sure and check yours right away to make sure that the belt tracking mechanism is working right.  I've looked at the reviews and that was the biggest complaint.

   A long time ago I was using a heavy 3x21 belt sander with the trigger locked down on a 100 foot extension cord to take down some high spots on a deck and it blew the fuse.  Went into the house to find the fuse box, flipped the tripped breaker, went back to the job and discovered my belt sander had vanished.  "Huh!  How could somebody come back here and steal the thing in the five minutes it took to find the breaker box? !!!"  

   "Wait a minute...where does this extension cord leading off the deck go?"

   20 years later it still runs; the fall off the deck and the race in the dirt didn't seem to hurt it any.

   Dusty and Lefty

8. 
   SkillSaw | Oct 29, 2005 04:30am | #30

   I had bought the cheapest Skill (I think 3" x 21") I could find 8 - 10 yrs ago in urgency to have a belt sander for whatever job it was that needed it & it's still going.  I got it as my throw away sander & it's toughed out a rugged life of work.  I have owned a PC 4 x 24 for many years now & it's an incredible sander, but the weight has it's good & bad points.  I still find myself pulling out that little skill every now & then..

   By the way - no mention of the new Festool.  It's starting to make some waves along with other products by them.  Good dust control systems I see.  Anyone have 1st hand knowledge?

    

   Enjoy,

   Erik

    

   EDIT - I just went to Festool's web-site....did not see belt sander, my bad....sorry

   ps - My PC & Dewalt palm sanders gets far more use than the belt by the way

   
   

   ---

   Edited 10/28/2005 9:32 pm ET by SkillSaw

1. 
   donpapenburg | Oct 29, 2005 04:57am | #31

   I bought a Milwalkee 4x24 back in the late 70s when my b&d died a premature death. Last job it had was sanding limestone corbels.  My uncle had a real old PC 3x21 all metal case with a bullet shaped motor mounted on top . Looked like first attemts at streamlineing steam trains