Hey guys,
My shop is a mess! Leftovers from the house construction, extras from others jobs, tons of tools. What do I do?
I hate to throw away or burn those one foot long pieces of oak or those three extra balusters but storing all that stuff gets in the way. 18 sq. ft of marble, 21 sq. ft of tile. 3/4 bag of mortar, etc.
Do you guys just throw things out or what?
I keep buying storage cabinets, tool boxes etc. but its never ending. The wife is going to make me live out there soon if I don’t stop!
HELP!
…and of course Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, or Happy Kwanzaa depending on your persuasion!
Mike
Replies
Ask yourself, as you contemplate each item, what's the worst thing that could happen if I threw this away?
Of course my advice is automatically suspect. I can't get my truck in the garage anymore. Took ten years from the time I moved into the place, but it's plumb full now.
Uncle Dunc,
You're right about the "worst thing" question. I always just look at something and say "Ya know, I just might be able to use it someday?"
The worst offender is cut offs of sheet goods (plywood, etc) They always look like they have potential yet hardly ever do. I have committed myself to never save another piece of drywall again. It never survives storage and the cost is so low, its not worth it.
Plywood these days may be a different story? The numerous pices I have may be just worth their weight in gold...even if they are 13" x 48" or 11" x 36". ;)
Mike
"The worst offender is cut offs of sheet goods"
Mike,
I agree with you there. I have way way too many. Adding 1500 sq. feet of storage has only made matters worse. On the other hand, seems like when I do burn stuff, I wind up needing 13" off a full 4 x 8 sheet a week later.
Funny thing though, I get a lot of prime quality scrap from the place I work at. 24" lengths of 2" Honduras mahogany, full sheets of plywood with nails that it doesn't pay to take the time to pull. Stuff that if I bought it, I'd save, but for free, it all goes in the wood burning furnace.
I remember in an economics class reading how prostitutes often would make sure that their welfare check always went to their kids, but anything earned on the "street" went to their crack habit. Maybe a slight parallel there.
Jon
The worst part is that whenever you decide to throw something out, you will need it less than a week later.
But if you keep it, your grandchildren will end up throwing it out after your dead.Mr T
Do not try this at home!
I am an Experienced Professional!
Or a day after you toss it and there's no getting it back you'll figure out what that gizmo was for.
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
every time i save stuff like cement or thinset for tile it stiffens up because of moisture and i end up throwing it away .so my rule is if i cant use it soon i dump it and let job pay for dumpfee. somtimes i leave plywood at customer home and tell them i can use it later on there house and it will save them money and if they or i dont use it they just pay to get rid of it on next job. as to plywood i keep it need to be 1/2 sheet or more to be used as materials or sawhorse table.if i cant use it for that i dump it I never lose money on material customers pay for . my shop is 16 x 25 and too small to work in if it a storage shed. lumber over head sheet goods on wall no more then 4 sheets and it needs to be good enough to use no nails paint etc. thats it . dog boy
Mike.
Good question, Millwork dries out, discolors & profiles change. So I don't keep millwork.
As stated by someone else, cement/thinset/grout harden in the bags. So I don't keep those items.
Drywall is just plain cheap.
Plywood, that's a save for just a while & clean out that pile every 2-3 months.
Misc. hardware, seldom gets used & when you do get a chance for them, the finish never is new looking. Let it tarnish/ get scratched by the end user.
Also every square foot of storage cost you money, mortgage, property tax, insurance, rent. Take all your annual cost for the property add them up & divide by the sq. ft. Now is the item you are saving worth it?
For all items you just can't make your mind up on, put a tag with a date on it & say in a year if you haven't used, moved or thought about it, Pitch it.
Merry Christmas
PJE
Edited 12/24/2003 12:20:18 PM ET by CarpenterPJE
Something has to give .
I like the whats the worst thing that could happen thingy.
I know that the cost approach should be first and formost . The cost for covering anything is not free. In fact it has impact charges that are covered up. The jobs you could do in the shop when it was new or nearly empty are gone. The money lost there is never known. Not being able to do simple things like changing oil or many many more things negate the use of a garage or shop. I have done so much work in the past on bad days in my shop and got billable hours. Not any more . I must do something because I know there is a cost there that is much greater than saving old tools and left overs. I know its handy to be able to retrive several things you have saved on one project , but when you cant "DO" the project ? This is crazy.
Tim Mooney
Put it out at the street with a sign that says free.
Let some other sucker deal with it a couple months later. :o)
Edited 12/24/2003 1:00:26 PM ET by rez
I have heard you make that resolution before. The only problem is that the stuff isnt free stuff normally.
9 inch delta trim saw
12 inch Craftsman table saw , plus a delta and a dewalt. [No one uses a craftsman anymore ]
Old nailers and staplers.
Ones and fives of laquer finishes, etc , etc, etc, lol
Tim Mooney
Sounds like a time to sell at a discount or build another building.
Thats my problem...I've got an 1,152 sq. ft building and its filled with #$@!.
I really should get rid of most of the stuff but I always think I'm going to regret it later. I wish there was an easier way to store things and find them later but alas there isn't...its just clutter.
Maybe that'll be my resolution for the New Year/ To hell with losing weight, I'm going to clean my shop.
Mike
the best storage system i ever came across was about 15 yrs ago i'm cleaning my shop and throwing all the junk in a trailer,when my buddy shows up and starts going through it.he keeps about 3/4 of what i throw away.then takes it to his shop. probably 7-8 times i've needed something,called him and he still had it.works great i don't stumble over it and he has a much better filing system.larry
Let's face it, we work in an industry that is extremely wasteful. Hey...America the "throw away" culture right? To try and save the stuff ends up being very burdensome. My story reflects all of the above. I have been on multi million dollar jobs where they throw away pallets of new plywood at the end of the job which wasn't needed or several gallons of $100 a gallon primer or paint. Usually workers would just walk off with a bit since it was going to be tossed anyways. But then the cr*p builds up and you don't have any room.
I now only take things that I know are really valuable and small. The other secret is if you don't use it in a years time...out it goes. It hurts at first but ultimately is very liberating. You know that you're going to charge for new materials on the next job anyhow.
You know what I always thought would be great? An exchange program for items such as Jer mentioned.
We each have different "stuff" that we hate to part with yet do not necessisarily want to store. If there was a way to have a posting board for free stuff and "items available" it would be great.
Of course the problem lies wherein it would only serve a localized area as no one is going to drive or pay for shipping for something of very little value.
OK, maybe its not a good idea. Yeah, just throw the stuff out!
Mike
On occasion I send some time in New England where I discovered that each local area has a recycling center at their dumps where glass, metals and various items are separated to be recycled.
They also have a building where people place their throw- away stuff that has a value, and make it available for all to go in there and find something they might need for free.
That is such good sense it deserves a hat tip.
Rez,
That's a great thought. I've heard of building materials recycling centers where people can donatate and buy used and surplus building materials. Sort of like a Salvation Army store for home improvements. Pros probably would find it inefficient to buy there, but what a great way to clean up the shop without feeling like the stuff was being wasted.
Al Mollitor, Sharon MA
I have all kinds of pipe/tubing/angle iron/etc. in a pipe rack and a few piles but use plenty of it too.
Would not be good to have to go to town to buy a little piece to finish a gate or reinforce a broken plow shank.
As some have said, if we throw something out, it will be "that would have been just right for ..." next time we start a project, or maybe some of us have a pack rat complex?:-)
Great care at being frugle...
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
Never organize your shop. Who knows what it might lead to. Next thing , you might be cleaning out your truck every day, putting tools away actually when you finish using them, or any number of other bad habits.
If I did that I'd never find anything .....
Be a packrat... err... frugal...
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
Just think of it as a form of home security-- if you can't find anything, what chance does a thief have if he wants to steal something.
>> Would not be good to have to go to town to buy a little piece ...
That's a persuasive argument. Also helps to have enough land so you can spread your elbows a little. And living where it's dry enough to store some things outside is good, too.
I sometimes have this fantasy, when I get ready to build my house, of buying all the lumber ahead of time, stickering it in a pole barn, and letting it dry for a year or two, to avoid all the hassles I read about building with new wood.
And while I'm on pole barn fantasies, how about building a pole barn right over the house location and working out of the rain and snow right from the start? If I were really unhinged, I'd fantasize about including a bridge crane. A dry work environment and no heavy lifting, it'd be like dying and going to heaven.
I think you're talking about a "maunufactured" home. There is some logic in the concept.
Al Mollitor, Sharon MA
Yeah, sort of. Except they take the house away and leave the barn and the crane for the next one. I'd take the barn and the crane away and leave the house.
how about building a pole barn right over the house location and working out of the rain and snow right from the start?
Unc- that comment made me go dig out one of my
'best 10 of' backcovers of FHB#51 1989. Wish the scanner would work with this XP and I'd post a pic.
Guy in LongIsland put up a vinyl-coated polyester air structure once used to cover tennis courts. Enclosed an area 23,600 sq ft in size and 40 ft high which contained the 7,500 sq ft house and a tractortrailer carrying 40ft long wood I-beams.
It says the workers entered thru a revolving door and the vehicles entered thru a forty foot long plywood airlock.
"Once the house was dried in, a crane gingerly lifted the air structure off."
Wish I'd been there.
Uncle Dunc,
look for a copy of a book by S. Azby Brown "The Genius of Japanese Carpentry"----basically a book about building bhuddist and shinto temples.
your proposed "system" is demonstrated exactly.
BTW----I also remember reading a book (fiction,mystery) where the main character was a builder in England who specialized in buying dilapidated buildings and converting them to modern use. this fictional character used to rent an old circus tent and have it errected over the building untill the building was weather tight-------.
I've got the exact same problem, and I am making a new year's resolution to eliminate it.
I have hardwood cutoffs that have survived 3 moves now across state lines! Baltic birch and maple and cherry plywood leftovers clutter my every move. I have to step over piles of scraps I just couldn't throw away, just to get tools off the pegboard hooks.
Go on eBay and you will see lots of guys selling small pieces of hardwood and plywood! I don't know how successful they are in getting rid of things, but it raises the question, "hey, maybe I should just pitch everything and buy things on eBay when I need them." I have thought about doing the selling bit, but then I think, "you must be nuts."
I have been working alongside a trim carpenter I hired to do all the inside stuff in a spec house I am building, and I am learning from him. He keeps a kingsize garbage pail next to his bench setup, lined with a heavy-mil contractors size cleanup bag (I keep him in supply). All the rips, all the chops, everything, goes in the can, and he uses his saws to chop things to size so they go in the bucket. I just haul out the bags and pay for disposal at the dump.
But, at the end of each work day, his station is spotless and uncluttered, and ready for work the next day.
I need to get that way in my home shop, and I will.
I have been using hardwood flooring scraps to build furniture such as step stools and bookshelves .My biggest mess is old doors and windows I must have 50 of them laying around under tarps, I'm planning to take the glass and build a greenhouse ,but who knows when. I also have about ten thousand brick stacked up that I haven't found a use for. I have been saving plywood cutoffs for stepping stones for muddy new construction, I keep 5-6 pieces in the bed of the truck so I can use them to protect yards or for sliding materials on finished floors etc.
ANDYSZ2I MAY DISAGREE WITH WHAT YOUR SAYING BUT I WILL DEFEND TO THE DEATH YOUR RIGHT TO SAY IT.
Please don't come over and inspect my place.. I'm hopeless. I save every length or scrap of wood,& sooner or later it goes into the fireplace for whatever heat it may give but in the meantime it's in a pile someplace..
Bricks, there must be close to five thousand piled up around my house waiting for me to finish so I can incorporate them into a sidewalk or retaining wall or something.. there is a stack of armor cable that will hopefully go back in place and save me a few bucks, piles of stone and shingles etc..
for two years my neighbors have put up with a lumberyard next to them.. close to 35,000 bd.ft. of hardwood have been stored on my property and while much if it is in the house there still remains over ten thousand bd.ft. of wood outside under tarps..
I've added considerably to the size of my house but we are living in less and less space because the tools/ wood and such occupy most of the floor space. The only closest left in the house is a walk-in that isn't anymore (walk-in that is, it's more like slide in and step over)
Yep! There seems to be here a few more candidates for the pack rat club.:-)
same thing happens to me, i make a point of renting a dumpster every 3 monthes or so to get rid of that stuff that is usfull but i'm not sure when i'll ever use it. If its been sitting in the shop untouched for more than 2 monthes i chuck it. of course i first ask everyone i know if they would have a use for some of it, and i do manage to get rid of a lot of it that way. Ive given some though to expanding my buiseness into the retail market so i can use up all those half sheets of plywood ive been storing just to throw out.
Custom Cabinetry and Furniture
http://www.BartlettWoodworking.com
we've got a 20 yard dumpster in our drive ... the plan is to clean out the shed... the basement .. the garage and the attic..
next on the list are the two bays in our garage at the shop and the 2d floor of the garage..
i still have (15) 4x8 x 1" insulated low-iron glass from the mid-80's when we were doing solar..
it's so bad .. i don't even bother looking for things we know we have.. it costs more to find them than to go to the hardware store...
this was fine when we had to take a ferry to get good stuff.. and labor was less that materials..
those days are gone... god give me strength to be ruthless
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
20 yard dumster ,...................wow!
I think you are cleaning up for the fest . Im wondering if your wife had that figgured out quicker than you did when she agreed to have a bunch of internet folks at her house. Course I know she has had proper priming with the fests she has attented.
DW would love the 20 yard dumster idea and Im not telling her about it .
Tim Mooney
Mike,
Why pay for a dumpster when you know you're going to have a bunch of scavengers show up in August?
I don't remember seeing anything I could really use, but that never stopped me from finding something I MIGHT be able to use sometime in the future.
someday, ralph, i hope to have my garage as uncluttered as yours
tim... give me your wife's email.. i'll drop a dime on you about the dumpster..
i often recommend it to married couples ... seems to work better than 2d honeymoons..
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Guys,
Wow, what great replies to what I thought might be a mundane post.
Ralph, Whew! Thank goodness. My shop looks just like yours. A small walkway to get back and forth and associated items where you need them. I had a few that many here were like Stan's and immaculate! (Did you see those pics of his gyrocopter?)
Mike, The huge dumpster is a great idea except my wife would go out while I'm sleeping and "help" cleanup more than I wanted to. Besides, shes aiding the problem as she bought me two new tools for Christmas!
Shep, Great idea with the security concept. My shop also has preset "booby traps" as if you don't watch where you step, 186 bd. ft, of lumber of 60 lbs of mortar may come crashing down on you!
Chello, Nope, unfortunately we don't have any kids to pass my treasures down to. I do however have a very skilled mother who laid the brick for my chimney, hence I pass "up" alot of my old stuff to her. Drives my dad nuts as all my old sh** is now at his house! Heh heh heh
Mike Rimoldi
Saw a tip in last FWW mag, for getting shop in order...only one out of the list that I remember: Every time you go into the shop, put ten things in their proper place.
I've been doing this for a week now, probably average 2 trips a day, so that's about 140 things where they belong. It actually takes a couple more minutes now to find the ten items to put away -- but there's still a long way to go.
The only time I will cleanup is when I have a big job coming up and then I'll stay up all night to reunite my tools with their rightful place.The ten items at a time sounds pretty good to me.
ANDYSZ2I MAY DISAGREE WITH WHAT YOUR SAYING BUT I WILL DEFEND TO THE DEATH YOUR RIGHT TO SAY IT.
merry christmas Mike;
do you have sons or daughters that can use the stuff? I got a new STANLEY tool box from my wife and godson. they haven't been in the shop for months,(luckily me because she hasn't seen what i bought for myself,"another compresser"), so i gave one of my old tool boxes to my oldest son. i have too many tool boxes or not enough tools? i'll be the choice.
p.s the tool box came with a new mechanics socket set.
pass them on to family, there is no replacement
My last resort was to takeover my wifes side of our home garage! I bought her a remote car starter as barter to keep her (somewhat) quiet.
I started to go with the idea of throwing things out, but then for about 3 weeks in a row every time I needed something involved a trip in rush hour Boston traffic from downtown to a hardware store. Needless to say a 5mile trip was a 3hour roundtrip excursion for some oak/mortar/washers/etc.., now I'm trying to cram everything into the truck I can and just organizing the shop to hold more things. I've been spending the last half hour before I stop working on Saturdays organizing and it seems to help some.
-Ray
Have a plumber buddy who use to run around in a van so loaded to the gills it was ridiculous.
So he went and bought a new dually van with the standup and walk in doors and shelving.
Now it's still ridiculous but he has more enjoyment when out driving around.
Can there really be an answer to clutter in the trades?