We’re finally on the trim carpentry stage of our home remodel and I hired a great trim carpenter to help me out and to learn from him. Since I have a day job too, I can’t do that much of the work. However, at the same time, I needed to buy some new tools just as because its been so long! Here’s what I bought and what I think of them.
Forrest Chopmaster
Bosch ROS
Grex P650 Pin nailer
1) Forrest Chopmaster to replace the aging factory blade on my Makita LS1013. Wow! This is the most awesome blade…EVER. I should have known, since I have a WW2 on my Table saw. Also, Its a lot smoother cutting than the brand new Freud Diablo blade that my trim carpenter put on his Bosch SCMS. (The Makita saw also seemed to have a nicer slide action than the Bosch saw.)
2) Bosch 1295 5″ random orbit sander. This is sander is lower in vibration and much easier to control than my almost 10 year old Black and Decker sander it replaced. My only gripe is the dust collection. Although the filter system works okay, it has a funky shaped dust exhaust which just made me just order a Bosch adapter for my Fein vacuum
3) Grex P650 2 inch 23g pin nailer. I “needed” this because we’re milling and building up a lot of the trim pieces in the garage. The pin nailer has also come in handy for fastening the casing to the edge of the windows (My doors aren’t here yet). I’m almost loving this tool…. but…. It has jammed about 4 times. Most have been easy to clear, by shaking the jammed stick out of the open magazine. However, the worst jam was the S shaped nail jammed in the nose. After dis-assembling the nose, I noticed that the piston didn’t retract either. I had to manually push the piston back up into the head of the gun. Are jams more common with 23g Pin nailers than they are with 18g brad nailers?
Replies
2) that adaptor will make a world of differance...
3) try a different brand of brads...
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Jams are rare with the 23g pinners I've been around. On PC pins, there is a sharp end and a flat end so even though there is no head there is a specific direction they need to be loaded. I suspect you're better off with pins from the manufacturer of the gun.
23 g headless pins are also a bit on the light side for attaching case to windows unless you are gluing and only need the pins to hold things in place.
Best of luck!
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
I should probably clarify, We're using 23g toward the inside edge of the casing onthe door or window frame and 16g toward the outside of the casing.
23g is still too small to joint the inside of the casing to the jamb or jamb extension. Tack on one and it will be easy to pull off with nothing but hand pressure. Not a good plan for long-term survival. The 23 is good for holding mitered outside corners together since the pins are in sheer, but the resistance to pulling thin sections of casing from the jamb is almost nothing with the headless pins.
Regardless of how convinced your new finish carpenter friend is that it's the way to go, it's considered poor practice by the majority of professional trim carpenters unless the pins are simply holding things together while glue sets up. That's not just me, but what's commonly accepted in the industry.
The good news is an 18g brad nailer that will shoot 3/4" or 1" brads is dirt cheap. In fact I gave one away not long ago that I would have happily mailed to you if I still had it.
Good building
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
You'd be surprised how well a 1-3/4 inch 23g pin holds. Also, you can shoot quite a few of them with barely noticible holes. That said, we have been using the 18g brad nailer for a lot of the work too, the 23g is mostly used hold the header casing together while the glue sets. We prebuild these in the garage.
I was impressed the other day with my Bostitch pinner. I needed to make a "dam" for a bondo corner repair on a column base. I had some scrap copper that I could just crease and attach, and instead of getting tape, or a clamp or the brad nailer, I just picked up the pinner.
I have done some stupid things with nailers and stuff, and really expected a wadded up pin and a jam...but pulled the trigger anyway..LOL
It went in fine, didn't blow thru, and held great...Hmmm? So I shotthe rest..same result. I mixed up my bondo, layed it to it, and when I pulled the "forms" off, I saw I had 1.25" pins in the gun! Holy Moly! That suprised me...I woulda thought they'd a pretzelled up going thru 16 0z copper.
I wish now I had a pinner that would shoot longer pins. I can get used to this new stuff real fast.
Sorry for jacking the thread but,...Duane- how large are your copper scraps? I have been calling locally (roofing/gutter companies) for copper sheet and they all want to sell me a roll or some other amount that I don't need, or they immediately jump in my face about the fact that they order only what's needed for the job and then I have to remind them that I'm not trying to get them to give anything away. I want to make some night stands or end tables with copper tops but I want fairly heavy ga sheet, not Wilsonart copper laminate.If you have scraps that large and you want to sell some, we can work out the details later. If you don't, maybe some advice on how to get smaller sized pieces would help."I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Edited 8/18/2007 11:41 am by highfigh
Grant is the guy for that kinda size, all my stuff is like valley end cuts and short drip edge, step flashing type odds and ends.
I do have a full sheet here, I try to always have a nice hunk laying around, but I have a job requiring it this week. Then I get another sheet to replace it , from Grant.
I dunno evem what the current price is, I had this sheet since the spring before last.
Matbe he'll cut ya a BT'er discount, but it won't be from his scrap, by the time he gets every usable inch from a sheet, the only scrap is just that..itty, bitty pcs.
A 3' x 8' sheet of 16 oz copper in my area was going for $150.00 wholesale last time I bought some. That price is for quantities less than a pallet. Don't know the current price.
That material weighs 16 oz per square foot, and is about the same thickness as 20 ga galvanized sheet metal. Some of the copper roof work I have seen in my area is usually the next step lighter in material... 12 or 14 oz (don't know which, but it isn't 16 oz stock).
16 oz is what we use. .0235 in. We sometinmes use 12oz for stuff like drip edge, too thin for roofing, but good for elemnts that get folded like DE, is plenty stiff then.
You sure it wasn't 3x10 sheet you qouted? 24 lbs for 150.00 wholesale sounds high. But it did spike up a while back.
Edited 8/19/2007 3:27 pm ET by Sphere
"But it did spike up a while back."Between roofing and cabling, I don't know why I didn't buy stock in Phelps-Dodge, or some other mining company. The cost for most kinds of cable that I use has doubled in the last year and I get funny looks when my bids show "This bid is valid for 30 days only".
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
You sure it wasn't 3x10 sheet you qouted? 24 lbs for 150.00 wholesale sounds high. But it did spike up a while back.
Yes, a 3' x 8' sheet for $150.
Copper sheet is hard to find around here in small quantities (meaning less than a full pallet). There is a big architectural place, Christy Metals, but they are about a 3 hour roundtrip if traffic isn't *too* bad, and they will sell in small quantities. I suspect that the places I get a sheet or two from buy pallets from them. If I want a 20 oz sheet, that's where I need to go. They also have 4'x and 10' material.
The price had actually spiked higher, so I bought a few sheets when it settled down a bit- thinking it might peak again. I think the price has come down a bit to $125, give or take a bit. Someone ran a deal that worked out to $100 a sheet (3'x8') if you bought a pallet worth (2k lbs, IIRC).
Almost any copper goods here from a supply house are quoted on a daily basis- meaning the price quoted is good through the end of the business day. A 30 day price quote to a customer could leave you high and dry here.
Yeah I know it is like a yo-yo. I think not too long ago, Grant had gone thru 5000lbs in a week..man thats a lot.
He seems to know when to stock up, I don't think he got bit too bad by the sudden upward costs. He's smart. LOL.
Well, I just keep some on hand for that special "on demand" kinda emergency. :)
Yup. Me too.
I would echo Don and suggest 18ga. as the standard for the inside edge of casing. If you insist on using the 23ga. then "stitch" pin with pairs of pins at cross angles. More trouble than it is worth IMO.I do use the 23ga. gun to hold arch-top casing in place temporarily (while I mark the casing "legs" for cutting to length. Great for tacking any molding in place that has to be removed later.
You'd be surprised how well a 1-3/4 inch 23g pin holds.
I and just about every finish carp I know use a pin nailer all the time and there is definitely a place for them, but they do have limitations.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
Edited 8/18/2007 1:28 pm ET by IdahoDon
Listen to what Don and Basswood are telling you - dont use the 23g pinner for the inside edge on casing, you need an 18g for that application.
I work around trim carps all day long and I've never seen any of them using 23g for what your suggesting, This is pretty common knowledge.
Doug
I'd up yourself to 18ga around the jambs rather then 23ga.