My 11 year old roof is cooked due to lack of ventilation. I don’t do roofing (gravity kills) and am getting prices. I’m making a spec sheet on the job so everyone is quoting the same thing but not being a roofer any suggestions on what to include gratefully accepted.
I know the basics ( or I think I do) but I want and am willing to pay for a quality job. I don’t know what shortcuts if any a roofer might do that will effect the life of the roof.
Reccomendations for the best shingle for the $ and a good warrenty neede.
Thanks.
Replies
Throwing a little more intel out here might help narrow the focus. What do you intend to put back up there? I know diddly on slate or shakes, but for asphalt, it's pretty straightforward. Everything up there comes off, including vents, boots, valleys, gutter and gable flashing, etc, and everything that goes up is new. I assume you're already on top of a remedy for the ventilation issue, if not, get there. New gutters aren't a mandatory thing with new roofs, but its fairly common around here and the roofer will probably like the idea of not having to clean out your old ones or worry about mussing them up with ladders. Three tabs are the low end of the asphalt world, laminated shingles are higher, but are thicker, have a longer guarantee, and are easier to install. Tamko Heritage are extremely popular around here. On the contract you want details of what they're doing and what they're replacing, out to what kind of felt they're putting on, and I'd at least inquire about "what if's" - what if they get up there and you have three sheets of sheathing that's rotten to the core? How do you get billed on that. That's kind of a biggie here - roofers don't need permits, but the minute they start replacing sheathing, they have to stop, send someone down to the codes deprtment, pull a permit, then go back, post it, and start up again. Asinine methodology, but you never know what kind of hoops might come up that you could end up jumping through.
Definately going laminated shingles.
Thanks for the input
That little bit about permits is only correct in that one city. I've never heard that way before. Find out what it is in your locale'.
As to writting specs for bid, you are going about things in a commercial manner. Suppose that I were to visit you to make an estimate and you handed me your bid sheet. Now imagine that since I know roofs better than you from my thirty years of crawling around on them, I can see half a dozen ways to either do it better or to save you money. What am I to do? Bid on the substandard job that you are asking for? Or offer to bid outside the box? If I do will you throw my bid away? If you don't, will it be fair to the other roofers who look at it. Will you be so obsessed with specs that I will find interference in installing a good roof by focusing on paperwork? Finally, Who will pay the added overhead for it?
Alternatively, I would expect tocome on site, inspect the roof, make my recommendation of what needs to be done, make an estimate (subject to vary only with unknowns such as undiscovered rotten wood) and presentation - read sales pitch - and let you compare my offer with that of others. If you are shopping based on price only as signaled by your bid specifics, I might not be interested in the job because someone else can always bid cheaper. I'm more interested in doing good work.
All that to say this, It's better to interact and to have some give and take in these negotiations in order to get the best VALUE, not the best price.
In commercial bids, an architect, project manager, or maintanencce engineer who knows something about the materials and the process writes the specs and in the public domain, there is an ethical compulsion to standardize for selection of contractors since public funds are being spent. You have options as an individual to apply common sense.
Even in public bids, it is possible to write specs so as to eleiminate most potential bidders and that is not in the public's best intrest either.
Follow the thread for recommendations on materials but I first advise loosing the spec sheet idea.
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Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.
The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."
--Marcus Aurelius
That little bit about permits is only correct in that one city.
Not disputed, and thank goodness. Hopefully the point was taken that every locale can have its "quirks" and more education = better footing for the consumer.
Very well stated, explained and all true, IMO. Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
Piffin- Thanks for the input, but I'm questioning when one wants to use 30 lb felt and another only uses15. Or some use drip edge and others don't.
I'm afraid this will turn into a confusing jumble whithout a spec sheet. I have no intentions of telling them how to do this I just don't want to find out 20 years down the road if I'd spent another $200 when it was installed I wouldn't have this problem.
I used 15# for new roofs and most often 30# on re-roofs. Either will work but the thirty is probably better for the laminated and as doc points out, some of the manufacturers state one or the other. You could make sure that the contract reads, "...in accordance with manufacturers installation intructions." for your own comfort.
Thirty pound is harder to lay the wrinkles out of but for a roof that might be open for a few days after tear-off, it is far safer against wind damage. Also, after tear off, a lot of little splinters and nail heads live on the surface of the sheathing and thirty resists puncture or tears slightly better. So asking for the thirty is the better choice unless the guy will be covering the roof with the new shingles the same day he tears off each section and it is a fairly steep roof.
Always use drip edge. Ask to see other jobs he has done and/or speak to referalls, if possible.
You want to know how clean he works and whether he is prompt and dependable. Roofing is on the extreme edge of dangerous, hard work in this industry. That means that some of the characters attracted to it are some of the dirtier, less dependable sort of human beings. Something I had to overcome in some settings. I remember roofing an architect's personal home and noticed him watching almost over my shoulder for the first couple days. Finally, he complimented me on the way I was flashing his skylights (custom build) and commented that he was suprised to see me work so neat and clean and thought that I should be doing something more highly skilled than just roofing - see the attitude? He'd apparently had a couple of bad experiences with roofers.
Anyway, you should be selecting your roofer based on recopmmendations and your impressions of him after interviewing at the measure/estimate and not pick one up at the neighborhood pub. He should craawl up on the roof to inspect some things, not just let his eyes wander over it and throw out an even number price, "$2800 oughter handle it Cap'n"
He should be able to provide references and show photos of his work. If you find a crew working on a neighbor's house, drive by a couple times and watch the workmanship, check in with the neighbor, and then call them to come look at yours..
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.
The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."
--Marcus Aurelius
State what you want. Type of shingle, ice and water shield 3' up eaves and in valleys. Type of valley if you care (latest issue of FHB shows four types). New flashing with material (alum., glav., copper etc.) with gauge or weight. Type of ridge vent (shingle over or metal) and/or roof vents. Drip edge. Gutters with size, material and profile for gutters and downspouts. Specify any special protection that is needed during the tear off (in my area the better contractors lay tarps down over the lawn area and then place sheets of plywood that span from the eave of the house to the edge of the landscape bed to protect the landscaping and lawn). Since your roof died from the lack of ventilation you will also need soffit vents. I would not have the roofer install the the soffit vents. Most important is to select qualified contractors (the hardest part).
requesting aprice for a roof from roofing contractors will usally end up with the contrator trying to sell what he is most comfortable with ,not what do will the job right . most shingle manufactors now have total systems that are applied by autorized contractors and some will even require that the finnished job be inspected by their inspectors and any defects or items not done correctly have to be corrected before the warrenty is issued,which by the way you read before selecting the manufactor they all have samples. The idea is that a roofing contractor could go out of business tomorrow and you would never know, if GAF or Tamko has problems you would be more likely to hear about it .Another word about warrentys most are pro rated which that by the time that most problems show up the warranty is worth about of you paid for . My sugestion is to contact the local roofing materail wholesaler and can put you in touch with the local shingle manufactor's represenative