Dh and I plan to refinish 1674 sq. ft. of red oak hardwood flooring in our home. It is the original finish that was done in the early 60’s (perhaps lacquer?) and needs some serious TLC. We’re handy folk and feel comfortable sanding to bare wood, but I hesitate at the finish level. I don’t want to repeat this process in the near future because of choosing an inferior product or applying it incorrectly.
What type and brand of finish do you recommend? What about the curing process? How long? What’s the time frame from applying the first coat to living (with furniture/ normal activity/ an active large dog) with the new floors?
I’ve searched and searched the web and it seems that a water-based product seems to suit our needs: quick application, low odor, faster cure time. I’m speaking of products that have catalyzed sealers and are recommended for commercial applications. The one I am drawn to is made by Basic Coatings. I also like the fact that they carry an ambering additive to make up for the lack of ambering in water-based finishes. Seems perfect except that 1.) It is not sold to homeowners and 2.) I was discouraged from using such water-based products by a business here in town that assists DIYers on their refinishing needs. They say that even the most experienced of refinishers has trouble applying water-based products due to the quick dry time and lap marks in transitions. ??? Anyone care to enlighten me, please.
I wouldn’t mind oil, but I fear the long cure time and the odor.
Since I am posting, how long can you expect to go without having to repeat this refinishing process? Is the idea to scuff sand the surface and apply a couple of coats after 2, 5, 10 years?
Thank you for your time. I look forward to our discussion!
Replies
I am no way any expert on this, but I did one last summer, first one solo and I was nervous about it but the pro backed out at the last minuit, used the water base finish and it came out great. Picky HO too.
And, I did one last week, water base product, no problems.
Be careful sanding it down,,,, thats where you can screw up the floor.
H
What brand of water-based product did you use? Any sealer applied beforehand? What was your process with the finishing? Lay a coat, scuff sand, lay a coat, scuff sand, etc...?
Thank you!
I did one floor w Varathane Diamond Wood Finish, and the one last week, I think was a Benjamin Moore product. HO bought it, and I read the instructions, but never really looked at the front of the label.
The waterborne products go on different than traditional. Since your going to put a lot of work into this,,,,, I would suggest getting say, 1/2 a sheet of plywood and a quart of finish and have at it. You'll see how it goes on and how it dries etc. Sand inbetween coats. The water one dries quick and hard. You can do a couple of coats in a day.
I wouldn't call the water one hard to apply,,,,, just different.
Note what another poster said about the orbital sander. He's very smart. The drum sanders are a handful. If you haven't run a lot of equipment in your life,,, get the orbital sander.
Did you apply with one of those weighted squeegees or with the traditional lamb's wool pad?
Thanks for the advice on the sander. From the info we gathered, we opted not to use a drum sander. We'll go with an orbital that the rental center just purchased brand new. It's been out once before. I'm thrilled for that!
And thanks for your advice on the water-bourne products. We'll try some sampling to see how we work with it.
I used a wool pad.
this all is coming from a non professional.i have refinished about 10 floors and heres my opinon for what its worth. first to sand i use a orbital type sander,they are slow but absolutly screwup proof. i rented mine from home depot and one from a rental yard,like the way they sanded so much i bought one.[pd 650 used]i asked here on bt what type of product a novice should use and got a lot of good feedback on oil base product called Fabulon. works great but i had to have it shipped in.cost was about 30.00 a gal. as far as finishing i found it to be fairly easy. to coat a room about 450 sq ft takes about a hour.then next day you screen it with the machine again and do it again. my experence with it is the first week will scratch pretty easy,after that it gets better but takes 4-5 weeks to really get set then it seems indestructable.odor is pretty strong for about 6 hours but then disapaites pretty well.i'm not sure how long till it needs a recoat,maybe 5 yrs?then i will just screen it and put another one on. good luck larry
hand me the chainsaw, i need to trim the casing just a hair.
We got ours done with BonaX oil based and it looks great. A pro did it and he didn't seem to dig water based but he's old school. They actually don't sell the one we used in large cans anymore so he had to use a bunch of the smaller (quart?) size ones. Anyway it looks good.
One thing I'd toss out there, and its definitely not for everyone, is to consider shellac + wax, for its repairability - not to mention quick drying.
How many coats of the BonaX did your pro apply? What about the curing process. How long did you wait before truly living on your new floors? Impressions from furniture kind of frighten me. I would be tempted to tip toe in socks sans furniture for a good month...maybe sleep on the kitchen floor? Oh, I hope not!
Thank you for your time and advice!
He put on 3 coats, each took a day to dry before the next coat. We've only done our bedroom so far, as we are stil renovating the rest of the house. We had to leave the windows open in the bedroom each day and keep the heat in their at 70 - kinda stunk since it was in the winter so the rest of the upstairs boiled. I'd do this while its still warm out - though maybe not "August warm."We gave the floor a week or so before we put the bed in per his recommendation. We haven't moved the bed to see if there's any dents.I think it was the "Woodline" product from Bona, but the can on their website looks a little different than I remember. We've had the floor for 1.5yrs now and there are a few hairline scratches in high traffic areas which is to be expected. That's why I'd look at shellac if I were to do it again - at least upstairs.We do a lot of DIY stuff, but I stayed away from the floors. The are such a beautiful thing, and an asset when it comes time to sell, that I didn't want to try it myself.-Brian
Thanks for the info, Brian! I'll have to do more research on the shellac as I've had tunnel vision with the oil/ water poly. Thanks, again!
I didn't put it in, but we had our flooring contractor use Bona Traffic (water-based). They did 3 coats, and we decided to stain also. For the stain, they used a Minwax stain in Golden Oak. We have some '49 vintage floor and some that's brand new, so we wanted to try to add a little more color than just the natural unfiinished look and even things out as best we could.
I managed to put a few scratches in it from moving the dishwasher and range in/out, but otherwise it's held up very well for the first few months.
FWIW, each coat was pretty well dry in 6 hours or so.
There are only so many sand and refinish cycles in a hardwood floor and yours is over 40 years old.
It may be useful to determine how thick your floor is before you start sanding. If you have them, take up some heat registers and measure the thickness of the hardwood.
Most flooring people I know use water based poly for the finish. Its quick drying time minimizes the inevitable dust collection problems.
I had the opportunity of redoing our floors two summers ago with a professional floor refinisher from Maine. I helped with all the scraping and sanding and got out of his way for the finishing. The floors are maple and he did upstairs two coats of high gloss oil based followed by one coat of satin and for the downstairs three coats of high gloss followed by one coat of satin. He indicated that the oil based is more durable than the waterbased and also indicated the the high gloss is more durable than the satin but we ultimately wanted a satin finish. That's why the base coats of high gloss. more traffic downstairs therefore, one extra coat. We have a young husky and a two year old hammering the floors daily and they have yet to show much for wear. Sorry but can't remember the name of the finish he used.
Thanks for the info. We are planning to go the same route with the gloss finish and topping it off with the satin which is more appropriate for the look of our home with it's existing heart pine wainscot. It also makes a lot of sense to place another coat in the more high traffic areas. Sounds like a great opportunity you had working with the pro. Wonder if I can talk some of the contractors around here to work in the same manner? Might be worth a shot!
That's another tick for the oil column. How about the cure time for you? When were you really able to live on the floors with rugs, furniture and your dog?
Thanks for your input!
Yeah, I feel like I learned tons from this guy. The way I worked the deal with him was, just track my hours, pay me a rate for those hours and pull it off the total bill. I suggested starting me at $20.00/hr and if he found I was not keeping up or not doing a well enough job, just reduce my rate or tell me to leave (fire me) altogether. I also told him that he could use our house for a show piece at any time. In the long run, he ended up paying me $20.00/hr and we have shown our floors to two potential clients for him. Definitely a win/win for everyone. We waited about 4 days after the last coat of finish was put on to move back in. We had lots of fans going and the weather was on our side. I remember it being very hot yet dry. May take longer depending on your conditions.
I read thru most of these suggestions and agree with most, but I believe you said you have lots of worn areas, and the floor hasn't been refinshed since the 60's
Maybe there are areas that are considerably lower than the rest of the floor. Using an Orbital sander is forgiving and best for a DIY, but it will not get down to the worn areas. Original floors of this vintage usually need leveling as well as refinishing. Only a Drum or Belt sander will give you any results here. They are not easy to use but the only solution for uneven floors.
You need a grit of 24 or 36 to level and start the process and progress to a 50 and then 80 grit. At that point an orbital can take over.
Most larger rental or floor stores can direct you on the right way to operate these machines. The best machines are Clarke or Orbit, and I would pay the extra for a belt model. This is best against floor scuffing.
I just finished a renovation job on a 1926 floor that hadn't seen attention since the 70' and I had to start with 24 grit.
As far as finishes I only use water based. My favorite is Varethane. Unike other Polyacryalics it does add some ambering to the wood, not as much as oil, but I usually stain first if even just a natural. I apply three counts and you sand between coats 2 and 3 only. Apply it with a lamps wol made for water base. Attach to the pole and use like a squegee. You move a puddle of poly across the floor overlapiing has never left a line. Has always been very durable.
Best of luck.
We've done the preliminary checking for thickness of the wood. Fortunately (or unfortunately), the original finish is on the floor. We have lots of worn spots in high traffic areas, but otherwise we're good to go Thanks for being mindful.
So, what brands of water-bourne finish do your friends in the flooring industry use?
I did one early this year. Used Minwax stain w/sealer and their water based poly. I would recommend using the orbital type sanders instead of the drum and do not use the edger. I took a small palm orbital to get the edges. Took a little more time, but didn't gouge the floors! This time of year teh temp shouldn't be an issue, but if you do it in the winter make sure teh temp is above 70 inside. My HO insisted on turning the thermostat way down and caused the poly to bead up, had to redo the floors! Floors came out beautifully once I made him leave the thermostat alone!