You know the old style metal weather strip uses on double hung windows I think up through the 1920s, it’s a track that fits on the jamb and into a groove on the side of the sash? Yeah.. that kind. Anybody know where I can get it, preferably around the Chicago area?
Optionally, what do you do when that weather strip is missing or beyond repair?
Thanks
~ Ted W ~
Cheap Tools! – MyToolbox.net
See my work at TedsCarpentry.com
Built from locally sawn hemlock, this functional outdoor feature uses structural screws and metal connectors for fast, sturdy construction.
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Dig into cutting-edge approaches and decades of proven solutions with total access to our experts and tradespeople.
Start Free Trial NowGet instant access to the latest developments in green building, research, and reports from the field.
Start Free Trial Now
Replies
Take a look at Pemko or Blaine Hardware. Pemko has the turned galv. interlocking bottom of door strip that locked into those brass thresholds among other old style things.
Blaine's is more window hardware.
A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Resource Conservation Technology has the best silicone rubber seals known to man for any door or window application if you want plan b.
http://www.conservationtechnology.com
I've made stops for doors on older houses-wood stops with a groove for the seal-very sweet...
or they sell a special groover so you can put the seal in existing stops
silver in the groove
Yep, that's my vote, too. I've worked with that old tin stuff, and thought it was well-thought-out.But since I bought that RCT router, and checked out some of their other stuff, I'm going with them all the way.AitchKay
Ha-I was sitting in the hot tub tonight with DW and said-you know-weatherstripping would be a nice niche-they make this cool router that cuts a groove in an existing jamb...then went on to explain that I had read about it on Bt...before I read your post...I think it was sphere who brought it up last time anyway-how do you like the RCT router...how often do you use it? what do you use it for? how much per average project/door?I'm thinking about springing for one...I specialize in older homes and it would be a bang on lucrative niche.I don't know if you have used their door sweeps but they are very cool...
you rout a 5/8" wide x 1" deep groove in the bottom of the door and screw their double sweep in...apparently you can slip it out and adjust as the sill wears...I have one on my front door...10 years...still seals great...and at -40 much appreciatedsilver chillin'
I installed one of their drop-down sweeps in a situation where a hardwood floor had just been installed, and there was no longer room for a doormat. That sweep solved the problem. More work to install than the usual screw-on, but way cool.The router is way cool, too. It's hard to get a straight groove because of its skinny base, and the first time I used it I thought I'd really screwed up. But the bulb settles in against the jamb and the stop, and that's what keeps the weatherstripping straight.I got the router when I told a customer I knew exactly what they needed, but couldn't justify the purchase of a highly-specialized $300 tool that I wouldn't use all that often. I proposed that we add 1/2 the cost of the tool to the job price, and they went for it.It's been a few years, and I've only used it a couple of times since then, so I can't really say it's paid for itself yet.I'll actually be using it today, though, on a custom egress window I made. It's a casement, so door-style weatherstripping will work.I don't think that any of the products that this router preps for will work on double-hungs, though. I think they recommend a brush-style product for those high-friction situations. Check out their full catalog online -- they make a lot of different products.The bulb weatherstripping, that drop-down sweep, and a standard sweep that routs in with a slotting cutter are the only RCT products I've used.That last looked like an ordinary, off-the-shelf sweep after I'd routed it into some 3/8"x 1 3/8" doorstop stock. But their silicone is way more flexible than vinyl, so it's worth the extra labor.AitchKay
I had to do arch top casement windows with that router. It wasn't easy, AND I hit jamb ext. nails. Ouch.
Free hand was the only way I could rout the semi circle, the long base thing would not even come close to contacting the jamb.
Same here on very little use, and I see now, you need to stock up on ALL the weather seal sizes so you have the right stuff on a job, one size don't work every where, and I've had to stuff small size into a large size where the gap varied.
So figure on 300 bucks for a roll of each size bulb stock.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
View Image
Yeah, I made the mistake of not having enough sizes on hand. I think I still don't have the largest size (1/2"?), but I haven't needed it yet.I'm trying to picture freehanding that arch, and I don't like it! I'm thinking maybe attach an inch-long piece of 3/4" cant strip to the base of an offset laminate trimmer just behind the cutter...So how'd you freehand it, anyway? Hard as it was to do, those RCT bulbs had to be the best product for that application.AitchKay
You can't use the spring loaded guide pin, so ya have to nose wheelie the bit in the corner of the stop to jamb.
I thought to take my rotozip along that day incase I ran into trouble, but I got er done with the router. Always pull toward you, instead of push, more control, and lock your elbows and wrists and use body english to rout is the best desc. I can say. I was 30 feet in the air on roof boards doing barrel dormers.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
View Image
9.4,9.5,9.5,9.4,...and an 8.9 from the Russian judge!AitchKay
Thanks for the info...I reckon that was you last time because I remember the story about 1/2 and 1/2...I've used the sweep and a few rolls of ws10-a tube with a flange for wood stops-one size does all no problemI actually have a physical catalog that predates the internet...I'm running a newspaper paper ad and I may add weatherstripping to my specialtiesI did an older home-wasn't enough room in the jambs to rout in so I used 5/16 x 1-1/4 wood stops...still pretty slickthe customer had expensive wood doors but didn't want to spring for the bottom sweeps so I made tapered sill stops on the bottom with the ws10-painted to match the sills-far superior to anything that can be bought from a lumberyard.I also used concealed door closers on those exterior cedar doors.They were from lee valley and kinda cool-you drill a 1" hole in the door and jamb-stick this thing in...mortise the mounting plates...All you see when it's open is a very small chain-smooth closing action too. The customer liked them...I tried one on my outhouse door years ago for a test runsilver
I'm heading out to w-strip that window in about 5 min, so I've got my catalog in hand. I see that the WS10 is almost identical to the tubeseal I use, but that it's designed to be used with a fairly-standard slot-cutting bit. Cool.I'll have to check out those closers -- never heard of them before.OK, I'm outa here,AitchKay
i cut the slot with a thin kerf blade
I installed one of their drop-down sweeps in a situation where a hardwood floor had just been installed, and there was no longer room for a doormat.
Do you remember which one you installed? Could it have been this one (405_V)?
I ask because I have a customer whose front door won't even open all the way without hitting the floor. They've asked me to fix it, but I'm not sure that a typical rubber or brush sweep will provide enough clearance and still seal at the threshold.
The 406_V looks very simple to install and they say it provides 1/2" of clearance. What was your experience?
No, it was definitely a Resource Conservation Technology product that I used, not a Pemko.The Pemko looks to be similar: “When the plunger contacts the jamb, the drop bar seal actuates from the hinge side first allowing multiple compression points.” That’s basically how the RCT works.All else being equal as pertains to quality, I’d go with the RCT because of the weatherstrip itself -- the flexible silicone, as opposed to the more rigid vinyl. AitchKay
Thanks. I trimmed that door yesterday and now there's a good 1/4" gap. I'm going to install a simple brush sweep because the HO is saving up for a new door anyway. Hopefully she's also saving up to have her floor re-finished because there are some pretty deep scratches from where the door used to drag along the floor.
Ted-
When I was in the art glass business we used a lot of zinc caming from Chicago Metallic (in your area, I think). IIRC the company also produced what you are looking for, metal interlocking weatherstrip. It appears that they no longer produce it, though.
I did Google metal interlocking weatherstrip and found this: http://www.accurateweatherstrip.com/
Edited 10/2/2009 3:52 pm by kenhill3
Info on 1 3/8" and 1 3/4" sash, in zinc or brass:
View ImageView Image
Thanks for the input everybody. Blain Hardware and Accurate Weatherstrip seem to have exactly the stuff I'm looking for. That conservation technology stuff is kind of pricey and complex, with the special router and all. I just need a replacement source for all the old weatherstripping that is gone or beyond repair. I guess the con tech stuff would be a good way to go if I was looking to specialize in upgrading old windows, in which case I would go the extra mile and set up for retrofitting thermo panes as well. Hmmmm.... well, maybe next year.~ Ted W ~
Cheap Tools! - MyToolbox.netSee my work at TedsCarpentry.com
Ted, don't forget to get some of their nails too if not included. Those things are reaaaaaal small. I keep some torn out jambs with the strips intact in the boneyard. Usually go after them when I need some of those tiny nails.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
I am able to just buy the blister packs of copper (plated) weatherstrip nails at the lumberyard. I've got 150+- doublehungs in this building and most of them have metal w/s.When you nail the w/s onto the jamb sides make sure you set the topmost nail below the bottom rail of the bottom sash (in it's uppermost position). You or the next guy will be thankful to be able to more easily disassemble later, like for getting at the weight door, parting bead, etc..View Image
Some of the ws I had to remove had at least a dozen nails/screws in them - none of which were the tiny nails!
But yeah, I know what you mean. There is a proper way and it should have only one nail, exactly where you mentioned. I wish all the past butchers, who I'm cleaning up after, knew that.
Anywayz, the job is done now. The owner went and got some cheap metal door strip from "da depot" and says "Here, can't you just use this?" I was reluctant but could tell he didn't care about doing things right. I just got it done and got paid. But at least it's good to know the stuff is available locally when I run into this again.
btw Ken, I alway meant to mention that I like your little "Coexist" logo. I wish more people in this world had the intelligence to figure it out. Peace!
~ Ted W ~
Cheap Tools! - MyToolbox.netSee my work at TedsCarpentry.com
Edited 10/7/2009 4:09 pm by Ted W.
"When you nail the w/s onto the jamb sides make sure you set the topmost nail below the bottom rail of the bottom sash (in it's uppermost position)."Excellent. There are so many little tricks & tips to be learned when it comes to installing weatherstripping. Your bigger picture is to install something so it can be disassembled down the road.
While most folks have absolutely no idea how big Chicago is, Clark Devon Hardware (can you guess the location?) sells the stuff.
I have been told that, according to the Guiness Book, the longest street inside a single municipality is Western avenue in Chicago.
Well I'll be durned, I go there all the time but never thunk to ask them. I just assumed it's one of those specialty restoration products you can't get anywhere else. Thanks!
As for Western Ave. being the longerst street, I couldn't say. I tried walking the whole length if it but got tired after only one block, so that may very well be true. =)~ Ted W ~
Cheap Tools! - MyToolbox.netSee my work at TedsCarpentry.com
There are a number of places that sell old/wood window hardware including zinc metal jamb liners:
http://www.kilianhardware.com/index.html
http://www.accurateweatherstrip.com/
http://www.phelpscompany.com/index.html
These are just a few of the suppliers out there. Blaine is good for plastic and metal windows - they have limited product for wood windows.
Thanks ETG. I'm done with that job but added them to my resources.~ Ted W ~
Cheap Tools! - MyToolbox.netSee my work at TedsCarpentry.com
I used to do quite a bit of the stuff and always bought my supplies from Accurate in white Plains NY because I lived within a half hour of the factory. They may still have the little book on the how to of all their products and I would advise getting it.
There are tools made specifically for the installation of interlocking weatherstrip but I don't know if they're still made. The old timers always had the Stanley hand plane set that had interchangeable blades of different widths for the groove on the back side of the door & sides of the window. I always used my router and my Stanley #78 rabbet plane to inset the mating pieces. A small router & a guide is all you need really.
The stuff used to be made of zinc or copper. I think it's mostly aluminum now.
A little tip for you, when you go to nailing off, (a ton of nails!) hold those little suckers in place with a pair of needle-nose pliers and use an upholsterer's hammer. Your fingers will thank you.
Some years ago I replicated some fire damaged double hungs, re-using the the metal strips. I ran off all the rail stock on my router table and it worked out really well. I also did the jambs, sills and casings, but that's beside the point. I can't see doing it with hand planes when we have today's motorized technology available.
I still use the rather expensive sash profile bits on occasion, but for more modern sashes. I haven't routed out channels for metal strips or sash chaines since that first project.~ Ted W ~
Cheap Tools! - MyToolbox.netSee my work at TedsCarpentry.com
"I can't see doing it with hand planes when we have today's motorized technology available."That's mostly true. It makes no sense to waste a lot of time with hand tools if you have a mountain of work in front of you that can be run off in a fraction of what it would take otherwise.However, hand tools and their uses are often overlooked these days. Many are the times I have not taken the time to go to my truck, get out the extension cord, get the tool out, put in the right blade, set the piece on the bench, and then make one or two little cuts or shavings. Rather, I reach in my pouch for the chisel or block plane or the handsaw that is at my feet, and in the time it takes me to make a trip to the truck, the little job is done.
There's also something so gratifying about feeling the years of muscle memory take charge when I use a hand tool, especially when I'm carving or sculpting. I don't want to lose that. A healthy balance of using both power and hand tools is where a good carpenter wants to be.My most gratifying moments come when I am teaching a younger person how to use a truly sharp chisel or hand plane and watching the look on their face.
Come to think about it, when I replaced those fire damaged sashes some years ago the only cuts I used the router table for was with the rail & style bit. Everything else I did on the table saw and, for the joints, the mortiser.
To be honest, I'm not very good with the hand craftsmanship. I learned with power tools and never really had much exposure to hand planes beyond my little block plane. But I do like to keep it plenty sharp. I have a plow plane but only the one blade that came with it when I bought it dirt cheap on ebay. Figured one day I would need it for something, but so far it's just hung on the wall for decoration, next to the old drill brace.
I tried my hand at some dovetail joints once. They didn't look bad after filled with enough putty, LOL. I always wished I was more skilled with hand tools, but on the clock is not the time to be learning new tricks. Maybe in my retirement, if that day ever comes. ~ Ted W ~
Cheap Tools! - MyToolbox.netSee my work at TedsCarpentry.com