I need to get an orbital sander. I’m a DIYer, don’t need the top of the line, but something decent. Suggestions?
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Replies
The DWalt 5" is a pretty good deal, I got one last yr. after using someone else's. Mine was a freebie, but I'da bought it anyway.
Next is a PC which is a bit higher $$$ but very, very good reputation as far as sanders go.
Finally, I'd consider a Black and Decker MOUSE ( no kidding) they are cheap, light and good for Non-production type use.
I have at least 8 sanders, maybe more..if I had to buy a new one tomorrow ( a plain jane 5" RO) I'd get another DWalt.
Wow! That was quick! Thanks!
Sittin here eating supper, and enjoying the AC. Brutal in the shop today.
Yeah..roundy type or speed block type? PC if it is rectangular speedblock..followed by Makita. Have not used a Dwalt rectangular.
Have NO high hopes about dust collection, most are next to useless in real life conditions. I mean they do work, but dust free is not gonna happen, unless an added vac is attached.
Oh,,,PC for your router ;)
Edited 8/9/2007 6:29 pm ET by Sphere
Thanks.
I'm in the AC'd library now, but today in coastal CT was as nice a day as anybody could ever want. After 2-3 days of high heat & humidity, a front came through last night, & today was gorgeous!
But it's going to rain tomorrow, so I'll shut up...
I was working in Essex today...........you're right, today was as good as it gets! Rod
I have to disagree with you on that.....have trashed and given up on way too many of the PC's over the years (why did I have so many? made a mistake in one shop and bought a bunch....inherited another shop with a bunch. Brought some into a repair shop once, complained about the PC....the guy stood aside and pointed to dozens he had in for repair. Worst machine on the market at that time anyway).
I would buy a Dewalt with the velcro (I now have a bunch of those, and they are much more reliable and do a better job), or possibly a Makita. The only serious way to run PSA's is to have one sander for every grit, so you replace the disc when it wears out, NOT when you need to change grits. But, that said, when I was running a shutter factory we did a lot of tests, and there is no doubt in my mind that you get a much better job with the velcro ones.
If you have a bit more money, and have air.....get a Dynabrade. far superior tool.Cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, Nova Scotia.
You disagree w/ the SpeedBloc? Or what?
I have the first PC RO ( Round PSA) that freewheels when it is off work. it sucks. I have the RT angle PC, not quite as bad but still not my "Go too" Sander. Also PSA.
Matter o' fact the ONLY velcro is my newish DW, and the onlythat uses holy paper. I am a die hard PSA fan, I find that I can get better loads for the mile in psa,then what I have used so far in hook and loop.
I bought Nikki's AEG rt angle ( or he gave it to me actually) and a slew of PSA ( it is a rt angle grinder w/ a ro head) and it ROCKS. Fast, dependable RO.
The Makita eats it's pad, and repalcements have been hard to locate, but really, it has a good swirl pattern for an oscillating type, and the motor is still as strong as the day it was new, it was rode hard for 4 pads or so.
When I worked with Dresdner, we had a hook up with Chris Minnick ( 3M) and had some seriously good PSA "test" abrasives, mylar foil Trimite..I stil have some..bodacious stuff. Then I switched to Klingspor,and got a batch that the relase paper was a hassel ( and trash filling)..so when Nikki sent me his Norton stock, I am using that befor the PS goes away, sticky wise.
As far as Dyna( and Souix), yep, they are the best for air, no questions about it.
Is it me? or is Klingspor lagging behind ? I just dont get the wear out of it like I expected. Except onthe Fein Triangle detail I have with the "stock" paper. I got it before the MM was the MM, just a sander.
I'd like to hear your exp. with sterated v. non, and what you are employingthese days.
Thanks for the respectfull disagreement, it ripens education.
Speedbloc good....5" RO bad. Forgot about the 6" right angle one.....I actually liked that, but haven't used one for a while. I do have both the different PC polisher/buffers....good tools. It's just the RO that sucks.
As far as sandpaper goes, I've used a fair bit of 3m stuff.....Klingspor only seems to be available from little wee companies here in Canada, but I haven't been impressed at all with what I saw so never looked deeper.
What I use, always now, is SIA.....Swiss company, extremely high quality abrasives (including foam backed pads, a Scotch brite like product, all kinds of stuff). Very, very consistent. IMO the best lacquers (for wood) are all Swedish or based on Swedish formulations, and the best sandpapers are Swiss. My SIA rep told me they did a session for pro shops n the U.S....Chicago I think.....SIA is just getting into the States.......converted the whole room in one session. In my area, I would say most of the pro shops, and most of the boatbuilders (for fibreglass and wood), are all with SIA. There was a Swedish brand I tried for a while, but got very bad mileage.
I love stearated sandpaper....use lots of it between coats, and I wouldn't use anything else (SIA lac.....there's no space, but it looks weird when I type it). I buy sheets and foam backed, which are great for mouldings etc.....you can crumple them up in your hand. Sialac is very good, but you have to be careful with waterbased.....any residue after you sand will make the finish look cloudy, as it won't blend into the finish like with solvent-based. What were you wondering about?Cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, Nova Scotia.
I guess I hit the trash end of Mirka or Bulldog, or else we have differring standands of what is "good" sandpaper...
3M Tri-mite Fre-cut has been the best , so far as I know in Alum ox non sterated, cus as you noted, sterated will have a chance to F.U> water based finishes. Sterate=SOAP soap= surfacttant, and then the finish loses the surface tension for build w/o fisheye.
The Gold 3M is awesome.
93326.29 in reply to 93326.28
" I guess I hit the trash end of Mirka or Bulldog, or else we have differring standands of what is "good" sandpaper..."
not sure what you mean by that....don't know Bulldog
Re: 3m....it was the best sandpaper I used until I tried SIA, and Iused to go through quite a bit of it. I just think the Europeans are miles out in fornt when it comes to both lacquers and sandpapers. All the best North American lacquers I know are licensing Swedish formulations.
The stearated stuff is fine with waterbased, once you get the lesson that every speck of sanding dust has to be tacked off.....never had an adhesion problem of any kind, just the issue of a slight cloudiness if you aren't careful.
Want to know something funny? I was at an auction recently for a flooring company that went down....they had a full UV flat line (an older one, but I had seen it in operation, and it did the job). i thought about bidding on it for the college.....I was there after some other gear. It went for $4000.Cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, Nova Scotia.
Hey Adrian, Sphere - You guys willing to give us a little primer on sandpaper? Like, what is "stearated"? What's the significance of it? How is it supposed to differ from any other sandpaper?Huck said it first. I just agreed with him.
Stearated is treated with a soap like surfactant, that reduces clogging when sanding between coats of finish.
It also can wreak havoc with some waterbased finishes, as far as fish eye and adhesion problems, it is highly recomended to clean(vacuum) all traces of sanding dust away. I use a damp rag too.
Open Coat is just that, no resin binding the individual grains and closed coat is more resinheavy and can heat up whjen machine sanding due to te grains not being as "free" , sorta.
I avoid garnet paper at all costs, it is too soft of a medium, and good for paint removal only, IMO.
Silcon Carbide, alum OX is about all I use, adn did I mention I hate sanding, I am a scraper fan and a quick buzz with 180-220, then finish that burns in between coats shellac, and Lac. I don't recall the last time I used oil poly, and a WB poly was 3 yrs ago.
Lacquer rules, for me.
Edited 8/12/2007 6:08 pm ET by Sphere
Agree with that, Jim and Sphere....aluminum oxide only on raw wood, SiC (silicone carbide) on finishes. The stearate is a mineral soap, mostly based on zinc....it is always a gray colour, and feels soapy. It is the only sandpaper I will use between coats, but I use other types of SiC on the final finish.....wet/dry (black or dark gray) up to 1500/2000x depending what I'm after. Other abrasive compunds after the 2000x.
The rule is, open coat (that means the paper is not completely coated with abrasives....there is room around the grits for sawdust) for raw wood.....closed coat (a higher percentage of the paper is coated with abrasive), is for metal, and some people like it for dealing with finishes (some don't). In my experience, a good industrial supplier that is selling abrasives t the wood insdustry is probably also supplying the metal industry, and can get your needs sorted out in a few minutes. I make extensive use of the expertise at my sandpaper and lacquer suppliers....I'm paying for it, so I ask every dumb question I can think of, and get to every technical session I can.
The biggest problems I see are: people sanding too fast (moving the sander around like a mad thing.....it should be a slow, regular movement to allow the sander to remove the previous 'scratch' witout leaving swirls.....move too fast,and it's just a noisy electrcial sanding block), and sanding too long....once the 'scratch' from the previous grit is removed, you're done....move on. When the scratch from the grit you just did is gone....move on. No higher thatn 120-150 grit is if you are using a film forming finish (lacquer, varnish, etc.), except to adjust the colour of a stain.
Don't miss anything at the lower grits, and you won't have to go back.....do it right, and it doesn't take long to sand something. Cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, Nova Scotia.
(and Duane) Thanks, you guys. I get confused enough with the "open coat/closed coat" thing. The type of paper is way too much for me to sort through. I am going to try to save this info for next time I order paper. Just got a shipment a couple weeks ago, but as you both know, that's like saying "I just stocked up on nails".
Thanks again. Huck said it first. I just agreed with him.
I'm surprised no one has piped up with rave reviews about their Rigid sander yet. A few months ago I read MANY favorable reviews here at Breaktime, to the point that I took a look last time I needed another 5".
I looked very carefully at the Festool line up, too. Was not impressed enough to switch.
Bought another (our 4th) DeWalt variable speed 5". Now have two daily users and two for parts. But they sand pretty darned well when they're right. The new ones are redesigned, much smoother, slightly different housing, maybe to protect the speed adjustment switch - that freakin' switch was the weak point on the older models. To the point that I think that model was discontinued while they redesigned it a little. At least, I didn't see them for sale anywhere for a year or so.
By the way, I'm a PSA guy. Paper is WAY cheaper and I tend to sand with one grit through several sheets before changing grits, so PSA make sense in my case.
Huck said it first. I just agreed with him.
Edited 8/13/2007 8:58 pm ET by jimblodgett
Ever see these Jim? I'd like to try them one day.
http://us.microplane.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=23
edit: Oh geezzz..think they have one for shaving too?...echhh
http://us.microplane.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=143
"the most amazing buddhist prayer song I have ever heard during my trip through the hidden mystique countries like Nepal and India. I've heard it playing everywhere in Kathmandu - buses, ashrams, hotels,streets, etc... "author unknown
how it sounds^-->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2shskL0AYuE
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Edited 8/12/2007 10:23 pm ET by andybuildz
Actually I HAVE seen those micro planes for woodworking, Andy, kind of like a rasp, or similar to what I guess a Stanley Sureform was supposed to be for (I just use Sureforms for drywall). But I've never seen them for sanding.
I took 6 stiches last month across the back of the knuckle on my left thumb after a run in with the edge of a spinning 5" R.O. paper disc. I think I'd be gunshy about using a metal disc. I bet those things are great for removing stock, though.
Hey. Aren't you scheduled to come out this way property shopping soon?
Huck said it first. I just agreed with him.
Hey. Aren't you scheduled to come out this way property shopping soon?<<Yep. Flying into SF and I have an appt with a broker in Carmel Valley, Monterey to check it out.
Sending you an email in a bit.
"the most amazing buddhist prayer song I have ever heard during my trip through the hidden mystique countries like Nepal and India. I've heard it playing everywhere in Kathmandu - buses, ashrams, hotels,streets, etc... "author unknown
how it sounds^-->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2shskL0AYuE
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Well, I hope you can squeeze a side trip in up here to God's country. Seriously, Andy, if you are contemplating that drastic a move, you owe it to yourself to take a look up here. We are currently being overrun by Californians moving up here and I can understand why.
Huck said it first. I just agreed with him.
you got my email. right?I was looking on a Cali website and one of the big topics of discussion was how everyone was moving to Washington from there...so you're right.
Some people said they moved back because they didn't care for the weather.
sorry...don't wanna hijack another sander thread.... god forbid...lol.
"the most amazing buddhist prayer song I have ever heard during my trip through the hidden mystique countries like Nepal and India. I've heard it playing everywhere in Kathmandu - buses, ashrams, hotels,streets, etc... "author unknown
how it sounds^-->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2shskL0AYuE
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Are you talking about an orbital sander (rectangular pad) or a random orbital (round pad)?
********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Hey? Why didn't I ask that? LOL
I hope she meant roundy-round.
But the mouse is a decent fixed base RO.
The round guy - I've got a square one...
for random orbitals, the Festool sanders are at the top of the heap -- both for performance and dust collection. For a less exalted price, I am very partial to either of the Makita 5" sanders -- one has a handle, the other a palm grip, and both have dc bags which work surprisingly well.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
I bought the Festool ROOS after my PC finally died. I'm not thrilled with it because its not bearly as aggressive as my old PC. I'd like it to be if needed and its just not. I got a decent deal on it from Ebay so I gave it a shot. also...getting the sandpaper for it is a pain. Its not easily available at the drop of a hat.
"the most amazing buddhist prayer song I have ever heard during my trip through the hidden mystique countries like Nepal and India. I've heard it playing everywhere in Kathmandu - buses, ashrams, hotels,streets, etc... "author unknown
how it sounds^-->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2shskL0AYuE
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Andy,Which of their sanders did you buy -- the 6" 150/3?http://www.festoolusa.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=7&prodid=571540********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
The model number is ES 125 EQ. Haven't used it in a while...kind of distraught using it. I liked my agressive PC : (
I'm guessing what I bought is used more for finish work?
"the most amazing buddhist prayer song I have ever heard during my trip through the hidden mystique countries like Nepal and India. I've heard it playing everywhere in Kathmandu - buses, ashrams, hotels,streets, etc... "author unknown
how it sounds^-->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2shskL0AYuE
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
I am not familiar with that particular sander (ES 125 EQ), but as you know probably better than I, 5" sanders are generally less aggressive than the 6" variety. In the 6" category, when buying Festool, most seem to go for the 150/3, mainly because they are concerned about swirl marks:http://www.festoolusa.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=7&prodid=571540However, I had a conversation with one of the Festool reps before buying mine, since like you, I wanted a machine that was fairly aggressive. He talked me into the 150/5, claiming that I would not have any problem with swirl marks as long as I stepped up my sanding discs:http://www.festoolusa.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=7&prodid=571541He was absolutely right, and this has become my "go-to" sander. I also bought one of the Rotex dual mode sanders, since I thought the concept was terrific (one mode for really aggressive sanding, like a belt sander, and the other mode for fine, finished sanding):http://www.festoolusa.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=7&prodid=571594For me, the theory is better than the reality, and the truth is, I hardly ever use it. You just can't beat a good 4 X 24 belt sander for flattening table tops, and I have the 150/5 for finish sanding. If you could add a 150/5 to your collection, I think you would have all your bases covered. The DC on this machine is close to 100%, it is fast, and you would have the 5" for touch-up sanding. ********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
If you could add a 150/5 to your collection, I think you would have all your bases covered. The DC on this machine is close to 100%, it is fast, and you would have the 5" for touch-up sanding<<Yeh, I guess but these bad boys get expensive and my PC was a 5" and was real agressive so I figured without trying the Festool so were they...only better. Even the description says its agressive...its so not..ugh. And I shouldn't really have to switch ROS's. What a pain.
Mabe I'll try and Ebay it out and get the 6" since you're saying that one IS agressive. This thing feels like a toy to me so I never use it anymore. Thing about ROS's for me is....I don't try and cut down tons of meat with it but if I hit an area that needs some extra attention its nice to just keep the same tool going and just work it a bit more. Forget about that with this sander...you'll be there all day.
My first Festool tool too...lol...say that 3 X fast.
"the most amazing buddhist prayer song I have ever heard during my trip through the hidden mystique countries like Nepal and India. I've heard it playing everywhere in Kathmandu - buses, ashrams, hotels,streets, etc... "author unknown
how it sounds^-->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2shskL0AYuE
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Andy,How about this? Since Festool is still bent on building market share (and satisfied customers), why don't you give them a call (888-337-8600), tell them how dissatisfied you are, and propose they either take it back (even if it is beyond the 30 day period), or -- take it in trade toward a 150/3?I haven't dealt with him, but Bob Marino gets wonderful press for being the best and most accommodating of all the Festool sales agents. You might call him with the same story to see if he is willing to do anything for you (he's in NJ at 973-896-4388). http://www.bobmarinosbesttools.com/He might bend over backwards to do a good turn for someone who is as active as you are on these forums. At this juncture, I don't think Festool is much interested in having a dissatisfied customer out there in cyberland. ********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Ya know what? I KNEW you were gonna say that...lol. Last time I listened to you I got that very cool raised panel set from Infinity for about $100 off the sale price : )
http://www.infinitytools.com/prodinfo.asp?number=00%2D911
and I was JUST going to use it for the very first time next week to build some furnature grade cabs for my van. Funny too because I was waiting to come up with some queations to ask you about them.
The raised panel kit is some pretty hefty piece of equiptment I do have to say.
I honestly do think that Infinity is one of THE best router etc companies out there. I've bought quite a few bits from them.
Thanks
andy
"the most amazing buddhist prayer song I have ever heard during my trip through the hidden mystique countries like Nepal and India. I've heard it playing everywhere in Kathmandu - buses, ashrams, hotels,streets, etc... "author unknown
how it sounds^-->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2shskL0AYuE
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
I remember that Infinity deal (he's the son of the old Jesada guy, right?). I would use that same slick line on the Festool guys.......They want everybody worshiping at the altar of Mother Festool, and I'm guessing they would bend over backwards to make this right with you if they thought it would move you closer to the cult <G>. Anyway -- it's worth a try......... All they can do is say no.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Just read the reviews for it..."excellent stock removal"????
Great reviews but...I dunno...doesn't seem like excellent stock removal to me compared to my old PC.
"the most amazing buddhist prayer song I have ever heard during my trip through the hidden mystique countries like Nepal and India. I've heard it playing everywhere in Kathmandu - buses, ashrams, hotels,streets, etc... "author unknown
how it sounds^-->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2shskL0AYuE
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
I use a DeWalt 5" random orbit sander for the heavier work and follow that with a Ryobi "Corner Cat". A little touch up with a sanding block and I'm good to go.
Some might poo-poo my little Ryobi, but it's been a real workhorse in my shop.
I've always been happy with my PC sanders...but whatever you get beware of one thing. Don't let it (ROS)fall to the ground. The bearings in almost every brand break real easily especially when they're still running!
"the most amazing buddhist prayer song I have ever heard during my trip through the hidden mystique countries like Nepal and India. I've heard it playing everywhere in Kathmandu - buses, ashrams, hotels,streets, etc... "author unknown
how it sounds^-->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2shskL0AYuE
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
check out the pc ro 6". uses psa type pads instead of velcro,so lots cheaper for paper especially if you buy on ebay. it's a variable speed ,works great . about 120.00 larry
hand me the chainsaw, i need to trim the casing just a hair.
I have that one and I hated the psa disc it came with so I bought the velcro disc as a second. I find the velcro much better because when I wanna switch paper which is often I can take it right off and keep reusing it. That alone saves a lot of money especially when you buy good paper and not just Norton junk...not to say I never use Norton.
So...in conclusion...lol...you CAN buy the velcro or psa disc for a back up for about $20.
"the most amazing buddhist prayer song I have ever heard during my trip through the hidden mystique countries like Nepal and India. I've heard it playing everywhere in Kathmandu - buses, ashrams, hotels,streets, etc... "author unknown
how it sounds^-->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2shskL0AYuE
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
I have a 5" porter cable ROS that I love. It's finally wearing out (heavy use) after 9 years. not sure if the company builds them like they used to but I've been very happy. looking at the festool next though :-) !!!!
"it aint the work I mind,
It's the feeling of falling further behind."
Bozini Latini
This is the best sander for the money. Reconditioned saves you some $ as well.
http://bosch.cpotools.com/sanders/random_orbit_sanders/1295dvsk-rt.html
Otherwise spend the big bucks and get Festool.
I've been meaning to thank you for the link - pulled the trigger on it today.
I almost bought a router from them as well, but my old one re-appeared, & I don't use it every day.
Thanks again!
I have 2 PC RO, one is the super hefty and the other is like a speed block. Also have the PC orbital square speed block. PC makes good sanders. Makita is not bad nor is DeWalt.
I had a
Rockwell that lasted 20+ years of constant use, and when they went out PC bought the "speed block" so I got it. Loved it and have stayed with PC ever since. No complaints.