I live in the south, lower Alabama. I have an older home that had wood single pane glass windows. I replaced them with vinyl double pane windows. Sure helped in the utility bills. But the heat from the sun is still strong when standing in front of them. Wish I had spent the extra money and bought low-e windows with all the bells and whistles but didn’t. I now am thinking about some type of non reflective window film. DW doesn’t really want to notice the film from the outside looking in. I did talk to a couple of film installers locally and one mentioned ceramic window film, pricey……depending on the type of ceramic it will cost between $7-$12 a sqft.
The other guy rolled his eyes on the ceramic and said try and get it guarranteed. Also mentioned that double pane windows are my problem. He claims double pane windows were designed for northerners to retain heat in the house, what I should have done was keep the single pane and put tint on those. I told him I have a friend that has low-e and when standing in front of them you feel no heat from the sun but when you open the door you can feel the presence of the sun. I said you don’t believe me after receiving a funny look from him and he said no. Obviously I left.
Any who, any ideas about what I might can use that would somewhat keep my purse strings still intact? DW doesn’t want shutters, blinds, yada,yada,yada. Just wants the windows themselves without dressing.
Semper Fi
Replies
There are solar window screens. I think that they are common in the SW.
This is the first google hit.
http://www.metroscreenworks.com/solar-screen.html?gclid=CKfz-s7PoIcCFTrAJAod5wpsJg
Here is a company that make films for the DIY market. (HD, Lowes, Hardware stores). Check the FAQ's and other stuff. I beleive that they say it can be used on dual pain windows.
The solar screens were the first thing I thought of and was turned down by DW due to being too dark. I may try again to convince her of the pro's of the screens, price being one of them. That ceramic tint I was thinking about using will cost me about $150 per window "ouch" (32X52), I didn't much more than that for the whole window unit. Thanks for the site.
Semper Fi
Have you looked at this?http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/WF/3MWindowFilms/Products/ProductCatalog/?PC_7_0_2FM1_root=GST1T4S9TCgv&PC_7_0_2FM1_output=html&PC_7_0_2FM1_gvel=T4DCJBL6BVgl&PC_7_0_2FM1_vroot=CV0K6WBQN6ge&PC_7_0_2FM1_node=8H66T99J6Cbe&PC_7_0_2FM1_theme=windowfilms_portal&PC_7_0_2FM1_command=AbcPageHandlerI wasn't sure if these were the expensive tints you were refering to
Edited 9/9/2006 9:58 am ET by xosder11
I wrote an e-mail to them to get a rep to tell me where to get the stuff locally, will find out how much it will cost. Hopefully cheaper than the stuff I was looking at. By the way thanks for the link.
Semper Fi
Edited 9/9/2006 10:13 am ET by Jarhead
Make sure your tint will not void any warranties on the window.
You can get tint at the local big box. Also check commercial glass suppliers and the shops that tint car windows. Maybe some of those guys do "side jobs".
Companies like 3M probably won't sell their pro grade stuff to an unlicensed DIY installer.
You can get tint at the local big box. Also check commercial glass suppliers and the shops that tint car windows. Maybe some of those guys do "side jobs".
That is something I haven't thought of..........Interesting. I'll look into it.
Semper Fi
http://www.gilafilms.com/Residential/window-film-heat-light.htm
I put up some of home depot's gila film in the max heat rejection version and its amazing how well it stops the heat. The film doesnt heat up on the inside either .. it also comes in a lighter tint version. Costs about $40 for 3 foot by 15 foot roll for what I bought.
the max heat rejection version
What does the tint you installed look like from the outside of the house? Is it reflective? Can you still see inside the house? How dark does it appear inside looking out? Sorry about all the questions. This may be the way I need to go. I didn't know the Big Box carried the stuff and I only thought I have been down every isle!!
Semper Fi
I was going to tell you that you could get samples.http://www.gilafilms.com/free-samples.htmBut I see that they are temporarily not available.Here is the specs on the different films.http://www.gilafilms.com/Residential/window-film-support-performance.htmAnd here you can get some idea of what it looks like, but they don't have an outside view.http://www.gilafilms.com/Residential/roomviewer.aspThe problem is that the store offer limited selections.At Lowes it is in the area with the blinds and shades.HD is a little different in that the flooring is in the same general area so I am sure exactly what it is associated with.
I went on-line and HD has it 4'X15' on-line order only for $33 and change for the platinum style, max protection. Just hope it isn't too dark. In store I believe is around $47. When I get a chance I am going to run over and check them out. At least look at it before ordering on-line.
Semper Fi
The max heat rejection gila film, called platinum - think I read its around 50% mirror when looking at it from the outside. Daytime you won't see inside much unless you really are paying attention. Nights, if the interior lights are on, I see in as if looking through a tinted window .. slightly darker than norm.
To me from outside it looks more like just a shiny clean slightly tinted glass surface. You certainly wont be using it to watch yourself shave in. You'd notice it is partial mirror but not enough of a mirror to adjust your tie. See how much holiday turkey weight you gained or lost is about it.
From inside the platinum does have a light reducing effect. Always looks like an overcast day even on the brightest of days. Maybe a slight blue tint but not noticeable unless you pay attention to the clear glass reveal next to the film to compare.
St Pete, FL
ps.. you can touchy feel, even put your face next to it and not feel any heat on the inside. I've noticed even a hammer and stanly's short pry bar sitting inside on the windowsill in direct sunlight will be room temp, with ouchy hot as you would expect.. no heat gain here at all.
If film breaks your window it might be from old age shrinkage .. i dunno..just a guess.. or perhaps you've scored the glass with your razor knife installing it.
... homedepot had it stuffed in a display here between the designer/decorator kitchen cabnet display ,, which was sort of next to the expensive decorative window blind displays. Boxed rolls standing upright, 2', 3', 4' in a floor rack
Edited 9/9/2006 7:05 pm ET by mike p
Edited 9/9/2006 7:09 pm ET by mike p
Thanks for all the input. I am going to look into the film. Other posters are talking about heating of glass with window tint will produce glass that will break. But the window with the film you installed doesn't appear to be heating, quite the inverse. If the glass is room temp when touched by hand in my mind will be the same temp on either side of that pane of glass with the tint. Meaning lack of heat. This said, it appears to me that tint will aid in keeping the glass cooler due to the reflective qualities of the tint.
Now, what happens when the light or heat is reflected off the tint and expelled between the panes might be where the problem lays. I would be interested to know which pane of glass would break, inside or outside. through this thought process would bet it is the outside pane if breakage is due to heat.
If the panes are breaking due to the addition of the film itself just being on the glass this might have an impact due to shrinkage as the others have noted. This may be where the quality of the tint shines through the competitors inferior brands of tint. Better quality, less shrinkage? I definitely do not want to deal with replacing windows........Would be one way to get low-e windows installed. :-)
Semper Fi
As DanH and Sledgehammer said, films can cause uneven heating of glass and can contribute to glass breakage due to thermal stress.
Additionally, some spacer systems are prone to seal failure when using aftermarket films. What spacer system your windows have depends on who the manufacturer is of course. As a general rule, non-metallic systems are more prone to problems due to heat buildup between the panes than are metallic systems.
LowE coatings are generally (with some exceptions) applied to the inner surface of the outer lite in standard IG or dual pane unit. This reflects solar or heat before it gets into the space between the lites. In winter allows room heat to pass through the inner lite and be reflected back into the room by the outer lite which warms the space between the panes and makes the surface of the inner lite warmer (emphasis - in winter) and that improves the "comfort" level of the window.
Aftermarket films, on the other hand, reflect the heat from inside the home rather than at the outer lite. This allows the space between the lites to have significantly more heat build-up and results in potential glass breakage or seal failure because of that heat buildup.
I have looked into, exhaustively, getting 3M film products and ran into problems similar to bypassing 'installers' of solid surface material.Their better commercial grade stuff simply isn't available unless you jump through all sorts of hoops and invariably only in large quantities.Yes, I understand the usual warranty disclaimers, etc. if not installed by trained technicians, etc.
The thing I have noticed so far is that every body's product is gold and every one else's is doodo. Not to mention they want your first born. One installer I spoke to said he quit using 3M due to price, customers didn't want to eat the added cost from the manufacturer.
Semper Fi
Plant some trees?
look into products made by 3M
BTW, I think, and pardon me for saying, that you may have to ask DW to reconsider some kind of window treatment. Closing or adjusting blinds or some other is a very effective way to prevent solar heat gain. If you have a bunch of naked windows facing teh sun, your gonna get heat.
pardon me for saying, that you may have to ask DW to reconsider some kind of window treatment.
Your not hurting any feelings here, But she is the resident designer....... Believe me it would make my job easier if she would use blinds. She is just trying to get a particular look and I am trying to please. That said, am trying to accomplish that "feel" she is looking for if there is a way. The way that will work is that "special" tint that has that "special" price. I am just trying and feeling out any alternatives that may be around that will not alter the color too much than regular clear glass that will be effective. The minds of this site have great ideas and insight and I am trying to pick at them, there might be something that I have not thought of.
Semper Fi
Jarhead,
[That moniker always brings a smile. I used to ride with some right fine Jarheads.]
Window treatments are going to be expensive and it does not sound like there is going to be a meeting between cost and aesthetics.
Here is another approach to cutting the solar gain, not original, actually quite old, and well in keeping with the Southern architectural tradition.
How about window awnings? Inexpensive, many designs available, keeps the ventilation and light, If you don't like them, unbolt them off the side of the house and do something else.
Just a few minutes with a protractor and some graph paper will give you the right size and placement for your latitude so you get the best light in the winter and best shade in the summer.
[That moniker always brings a smile. I used to ride with some right fine Jarheads.]
Besides Lee H. Oswald I haven't meet too many bad ones myself! That is a part of my life I really enjoyed, been many places and seen more than I can imagine that I would have otherwise not been able too due to my time in the Corps. Good, bad or indifferent.
How about window awnings? Inexpensive, many designs available, keeps the ventilation and light, If you don't like them, unbolt them off the side of the house and do something else.
That is something else I haven't thought of either. Have to ask DW her opinion on the subject. With an awning we could use a canvas or similiar derivative that can also add a little color to the house. Thanks.
Semper Fi
Be aware that window films have a tendency to cause the seal of double-pane glass to fail. I don't know how "real" this problem is, but window manufacturers will not warranty windows that have had a film installed.
That is interesting..... I wonder why applying a film would somehow alter the mechanical ability or seal of a window. May have to look into that prospect.
Semper Fi
The film can cause uneven heat buildup in the glass. Probably more a problem with films that are more grey vs reflective, but hard to say for sure.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
This is what Gila Films says."Is GILA Window Film safe for dual-pane windows?All GILA Window Films are safe for dual pane windows if used correctly. Most can be applied to the inside of dual pane windows with the exception of Glare Control and Privacy Black (outside only)."And I believe that some of the suppliers/commercial installers will warantee it.Here are some othershttp://www.mmtint.com/faq.htm#I%20have%20dualhttp://www.solarfilmco.com/faq.html
Yeah, I'm guessing the truth, as usual, is somewhere in-between. The window mfgrs obviously want to sell their own built-in treatments (which really are superior in most ways, though more expensive). But the add-on films have definitely caused problems in the past. Don't know about the current breed of films.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
I don't know of any manufacturer that dosen't void the warranty if you apply a film to the glass. It'll break it, maybe not all the time, but enough that I make a good living replacing glass because of it!Another favorite one is when builders spray paint the back of insulated glass black, in areas like attics. They break very nicely!Once I went to a house that was only two months old, big arch top direct set window in a two story room. Had film, cracked right up the middle. She had to buy the glass and the labor to replace. Big bucks!View Image
Edited 9/9/2006 5:45 pm ET by jocobe
Many films produce uneven heating.
Glass doesn't like to be heated unevenly.
Here is an experiment.... hold a propane torch to the edge of any pc of glass.
May not happen often but when it does, the cost of replacing the glass will out weigh any savings on your electric bill.
My guess would be that it is more related to careless installation than to the presence of the film.
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If you go to HD on schillgers , go into commerial door, go over three asle, all the way to the back, on right hand side, you see. Solar screen. That stuff works good too. gives you a little privacy too.
It's not really a guessing matter.
Glass is not a collector of heat but a transfer medium. Unless glass is heated and cooled uniformly is breaks.
The shadow of a utility pole passing over filmed glass can be enough to stress it to the breaking point.
With a torch you could heat up one side of a pane to the melting point while the other side remained cool to the touch, in theory.... But I'll gaurentee you it'll break well before it melts.
In the building where I work I've seen several large "office-building-size" panes break as follows: In the winter water from melting snow runs down the east side of the building in the PM and freezes on the window in a stream (maybe 1/2" wide, running vertically down the pane). Then when the sun comes up next AM the sun is focused by the frozen stream and overheats the INNER pane, causing a crack directly in line with the ice.Didn't start seeing this problem until they replaced the windows with new tinted ones.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
That is why I lean to thinking it has much to do with installation. Unl;ess the install is even, smooth, and complete, the glass will not heat evenly
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