Replies

1. 
   BillHartmann | May 30, 2005 07:01am | #1

   The first 3 importing things are;

   1) local developement laws
   2) local development laws
   3) local development laws.

   Requirements vary from none, other than recording the plat, to years and years of hearings. studies, and planing meets with no assumpt that you will every get anything but a large pile of rejection slips.

   So the first thing is to find out what is needed to sub-divide the property.

   Then if possible to su-divide it what improvements that the govenemtn wants, such as roads (and to what standards) and drainage.

1. 
   Handydan | May 30, 2005 11:51am | #2

   A few of the potential problems would be is water available, Power, sewer, zoning for what size lots, what are lots worth when done, and many so ons.  Call the planning dept. they can generally give you a clue or two to follow.  the subject varies greatly from one jurisdiction to another.  Have fun.

    

   Dan

2. 
   Piffin | May 30, 2005 01:05pm | #3

   It will be different everywhere but here ae some highlights for my location:

   First, the ten acres is on the margin between major or minor subdivision. A person can split a lot off his primary holdings once every five years without much of a restriction other than minimal size of lot and frontage. or he can subdivide into three lots same way one time.

   but when he wants to make more than four lots, it is a major subdivision and a hundred new rules come into play.
   >Each lot has to be at least 1-1/2 acre
   >each lot must have a spot where soils tests allow building a septic system
   >they must be laid out so that a well can be drille on each no closer than 100' to any septic system
   >The subdivision must have it's own road, built to certain specified standards ( this because the road willbecome public property and the responsibility of tow taxpayers to plow and maintain. Poorly built roads cost a lot to maintain) There is usually only one egress from the subdivision to the main road.
   >each lot must have a minimal frontage on the subdivision road of something like 150'
   >anything else the permitting board decides is needed to protect the public saftey and health and water resources, etc - wide authority iover those things that are a potential public concern. ie - in a closely built city, they might require a green zone set aside for park or just wild trees.

   So you can see how that a developer could not just divide ten acres by 1-1/2 and come up with 6.67 lots. Six would be the most he could get out of it, given the space neede3d for roads and minimal lot sizes. depending on terrain around here and soils, he might be lucky if the engineers came up with four or five lots. Considering economy of scale, if you were a client of mine, I would recommend that yuou just make three lots and stay out of the major requirements. Now, if youwere talking 50-60 acres of decent land, that would be different...

   In a city, I believe the developer would be required to put in all water and sewer mains, possibly power and gas too.

   It takes a team of engineers and surveyors some time to pull off the planning for something like this

    

    

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1. 
   4Lorn1 | May 30, 2005 01:52pm | #5

   Re: "In a city, I believe the developer would be required to put in all water and sewer mains, possibly power and gas too."Yes and no.Most projects in this area have the developers only running the utilities and infrastructure actually within the development itself. Sometimes not even this. Often the mythology that a county can build its way to prosperity is used as bait, often with a few large and well placed political contributions or donations to a politicians favorite charity, to stimulate the local, state or federal government to finance the internal infrastructure.Even without the community financing development on the developers land this leaves a whole lot of infrastructure to be built. Even two lane road with sidewalks and curbs suitable for moderate traffic can cost several million dollars a mile. Water and sewer mains, electrical feeders, lift stations and substations, power plants and water treatment, fire and police stations, none are covered by developers. Another case of profits being privatized and liabilities socialized. So it goes.

1. 
   Piffin | May 30, 2005 02:25pm | #6

   Aha! There are also places where it goes the other way around, with impact fees being assessed on the developement. say a mine nearby to a small mtn community has the capacity fopr doubling the population of a town. The watersystem needs to be redone totally, cause ing an impact on the taxpayers already there, as well as increasing the financial needs of the schools. The resulting impact fees can be assessed directly on the developers at time of permitting, or passed on later.
   In one town I am familiar with, they chose the latter, The developers put in the mains under the street and then a tap fee of five thousand for sewer and nine thousand for water was assessed against each new house as it was built.
   The gain in property taxes presumably went to school funding. 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

3. 
   Piffin | May 30, 2005 01:13pm | #4

   Short version is that all this work has up-front investment cost, as well as money cost ( intrest payments on money used and tied up for several years opossibly) while you could get rejected or sent bacak to the drawing board if all the neighbors object. You could also become a hated person given feelings and human nature re subjects of change, envy, greed, etc

    

    

   Welcome to the
   Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
    where ...
   Excellence is its own reward!

4. 
   davidmeiland | May 30, 2005 07:28pm | #7

   Ed... well, he asked the wrong guy. A local attorney who deals with land use will be more able to inform him. When he gets everything subdivided and ready to build, you sweep in and build it all.

5. 
   blue_eyed_devil | Jun 01, 2005 02:13am | #8

   Ed, there are many answers to your ten acre question. Around here, a ten acre plot could easily be split up and built with very little headache, or it could be a major project depending on the locale.

   The wealthy client is indeed thinking he can make a very good return on his money by investing in a development and I'd have to say he is correct.

   Since he obviously needs someone like you to manage it for him, I'd quickly get him committed to doing a project together.

   blue

    

6. 
   Schelling | Jun 01, 2005 04:31am | #9

   My wife and I have bought 140 acres of land with a house with the goal of subdividing this land and selling it. Around here that would result in 12 to 14 lots, though it could be a better deal for us and a potential buyer to have less lots. Though my wife is a real estate agent, we knew very little about this and in fact one of the reasons that she wanted to do it was to become more familiar with the process.

   We have relied heavily on a local surveyor who has much experience in navigating the various zoning agencies. His guidance has been invaluable. There may be such an individual in your area, though he could be an attorney. In any event, you, or the developer need to get such an individual on board at the earliest possible stage.

   As others have said, this process can take a lot of time. In our case we are looking for a longer term investment, so time is on our side. Your wealthy friend may or may not be in the same position. Good luck in whatever you decide to do.

1. 
   DonK | Jun 01, 2005 04:48am | #10

   You think time is on your side... Maybe not. I've seen several situations where the rotten scoundrels change the rules in the middle of the game. Moral of the story, get it in writing (approvals).

   Don

1. 
   Schelling | Jun 01, 2005 05:30am | #11

   "Maybe not. I've seen several situations where the rotten scoundrels change the rules in the middle of the game"

   You are no doubt right and one can never be 100% certain of anything. In this case the zoning authority is a large state agency that has over 30 years of precedents that dictate its decisions. Changing the basic rules would require action by the state legislature and this is highly unlikely. Though it will take time and the requisite hoop jumping, we are confident that we can make the subdivisions happen.