Hi,
I just saw this:
hey, young dude… welcome..
where is “middle tennessee” ?
went to a wedding in Smithville 2 summers ago…
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So now you have another new member from Tennessee: me.
I’m Judy Hotchkiss, co-owner of Prospect Hill B&B Inn (c. 1889) in Mountain City, TN. You can learn way too much by going to www.prospect-hill.com. We are located in the FAR NE corner of the state and my mansion (it’s for business!) has a view of NC and VA.
I know a lot about house renovation (we’ve done about 10-12 historic houses) but never tried new construction.
My question/problem and reason for joining this group (I’ve been a Fine Home Building magazine subscriber for years) is to ask about WINDOWS.
We are building a 1500 sq.ft. one-story wedding/conference room. Our one-and-a-half man building team has to put up with me as the designer. Thus far I’ve sized everything for Marvin Windows. NOW I’m getting static from the home supply center and the builder on the brand. We’ve used Marvin windows before, in 1995 and again in 2000. We were satisfied. The “guys” are trying to convince me quality is down; price is up. They like Crestline which certainly didn’t used to be a good name in the business….
My need will be all wood, 7-foot tall double french door sets, quite a few units with two awning windows, each 3’x3′ set one above the other, a lineal series of 2-foot awnings and fixed sashes and a “window wall” which has three 3’x7′- french doors at the base of it. I need one double hung on the entire job. Also one, maybe two possibly custom triangular windows for a gable end. [It’s an elaborate room!]
Any suggestions for manufacturers? One GOOD thing about Marvin is we do have a sales rep. right here in town and another just 25 min. away. Also, are these guys price fixed or can a discount be had? I’m thinking we are looking at $20,000++ in windows (the 3-window one was priced out at $7000).
Our arrangement is that we pay for materials.
Thanks for your help!
Judy
Replies
Welcome,
You don't have a question as much as you have a need.
You have a need to have Marvin products. Excellent choice, some may say a bit pricey, but you get what you need from them.
Your builder has the question. Why do YOU want Marvin. Because you like them. YOU are paying for them so what difference does it make to your builder?
Eric
I Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
Is there any other window on a par (quality) at less price?
Judy
I'm on the West coast, but I really prefer Marvins over most others....a lot of my preference, in addition to the consistent quality, is the customer service. Where I am, Marvin does great, as does Milgard and Pella and Simpson (for doors).
Anderson makes a decent window and door (a little overpriced IMO) and gets some good press on this site, but in my area, Anderson's customer service is....less than good.
When I am familiar and comfortable with a product, I tend to be pretty loyal, as long as the loyalty remains justified, so when a supplier tries to steer me off with what sounds like watercooler advice, I start having my doubts about the supplier.
Good point on the supplier. I don't know the guy well but have just joined a downtown development committee where he will soon be president. Local "politics" tend to get in the way. IF I shop it around he'll (1) find out (2) have his nose out of joint. IF I tell him he's high and I'm walking elsewhere (as to nearby NC) I also risk offending him. My builder says "Ah, just tell him you want a lower bid; it's just business!" Easy for my builder to say. He buys a lot of product in there with other people's money. My husband and I have found no respect in the past for the $10-$20,000 we've dropped in there, whether the order was placed by myhusband or me. (Only supply house in the county; next nearest 25 mi.)
I find telling a company exactly what you want or think is a pretty hard thing to do in a part of the world where women aren't part of business, especially the construction trades! But I sure as heck don't plan on spending more than needed! In rthis area of high unemployment I'm keeping two guys working and will put others to work once the building goes into use as a party/rental facility.
Anyway, just as you have to ask for a fair price with customers, I suppose I should take my own advice and ask for what I think is fair or what I want to pay (nothing ventured?) and shop it around as needed.
Judy
I have had good luck with Anderson, but they are vinyl clad so they don't meet your spec. I have read good things here about Kolbe.
I agree with other posters ... tell your builder you want Marvin and that's the end of the discussion. Same with the supplier. If there is another option (different brand, different supplier, etc) tell him straight up what you're doing and go for it. Most people in the building industry understand competition, and appreciate honesty. If this guy gets bent out of shape cuz you're trying to spend your money wisely, then maybe it would be worth send some money 25 miles down the road.
All I know, I learned from Luka.
judy...i prefer Andersen.. they have new lines in their custom series ( KLM) ..and their Frenchwood doors are great
i find Marvin to be a good product but no better than Andersen.. and certainly more expensive..
but putting Crestline & Marvin in the same sentence doesn't sound good..
Marvin is light-years better than Crestline....
and it is just business.. either they will sell you or they won't..
in terms of doors and windows.. my experience is that the product is only as good as the distribution chain..if Marvin has good dealers and good distributors , then they will service the product..
we have so much competition here in the NorthEast that we tend to get good service from all of the major players..Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Judy, welcome to Breaktime. I've heard your part of the country is beautiful.
Marvin is the creme de la creme of production windows. I've never used the other brand you mentioned, but Marvin has good windows. If you're pre-sold on them going in and you're paying, I don't know why your builder would be arguing with you on this. The only downsides are price (worth it) and installation can be a pain (not your problem).
Don't get the craplines. Anderson would be a better choice tho not aluminum clad. I used to be a service rep for a marvin distributor & I have to say it is the best window out there. HOwerver, take a look at the NORCO if you can get them in your area. A very good knock off. Kolb & Kolbe or Pozzi are 2 other lines to look at.
Hi Judy and welcome. I've been happy with Pella's aluminum clad wood windows in a continental climate with cold snowy winters and hot humid summers.
BTW, is Beanstalk still open near the ASU campus in Boone?
Judy, it sounds like you into another serious project. Welcome.
Mike is right....Marvin and Crestline cannot be spoken in the same sentence. There isn't any comparison. Crestline is the bottom of the barrel. Only those on the tightest budget would use them. I have used them...I'd would certainly buy a vinyl window than buy them again.
I understand your reluctance to ask for a discount in your small town local supply house. I also understand your intimidation regarding your gender, although I'm not female....I feel the same way when I walk into an electric supply house (I'm a carpenter contractor). I have no problem whatsoever laughing at a price for a nailgun or box of nails, in an effort to get a better deal, but when I'm out of my element, the chicken feathers sprout on me.
You do hold the keys to your own destiny, however, regarding your negotiations for those Marvins. It will take some negotiating, and it sounds like your in need of some negotiating ploys.
First, if you are negotiating, with the goal in mind of getting those Marvins discounted, you probably will have to be very, very coy. You can't for a moment let them know you actually want them. Go after the crestline with a vengeance, negotiate a percentage discount, then use that percentage discount as your leverage with the Marvin dealer. I would be very careful about using the Marvin dealer 25 miles away as the leverage. In small towns, you'll be quickly labeled and it'll be like pulling teeth to get any local co-operation if you split your loyalty to another town.
If you decide that the Marvins are just out of your price range, and you go to another town to get a different brand, then the locals won't have anything against you, because they don't stock or service that brand.
All dealers have a great deal of flexibilty on price. Marvin just happens to be a high end wood window and the wholesale price to dealers is high, so theres not as much spread as a crestline would have...but there is some room...especially on larger orders. Think of it like this....if someone walks off the street and buys ten windows, and they mark them up 35%....are they happy? Of course...both sellers and buyers are happy. IF you negotiate to pay the full 35% for your first ten windows, and get the rest of the windows at cost....would they be happy? They're still only going to write up one order and make one delivery and make the same gross profit for one days work as the first customer.
Use your volume as the lever and whine and threaten to buy the crestline till you get a price to suit you.
Remember, don't let on that you want the Marvins...just tell the dealer that you'd rather give him the business.
This process should take a coupla weeks...not days.
blue
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!