new Non-load bearing wall in old house
jimbat2239
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I live in a townhome build in 1976. The exterior walls are brick over 8″ concrete block. The lower level was finished by the builder; however, the interior walls are drywall fastened to 3/4″ furring strips nailed to the concrete block. There is virtually no insulation-a suggestion of cellulose here and there. I need a stong wall to hang a 58″ plasma tv and am planning on installing a 2×4 frame on 16″ centers and insulating with foam panels before installing the drywall. The question is: Do I have to remove the existing drywall?
Thanks in advance
Replies
That might depend on the span of your wall, and how you intend to anchor it to the two(?) adjacent walls, floor and ceiling.
Can you provide some further information?
"When the spirits are low, when the day appears dark, when work becomes monotonous, when hope hardly seems worth having, just mount a bicycle and go out for a spin down the road, without thought on anything but the ride you are taking." — Sherlock Holmes, 1896
The wall is about 15 feet in length. I plan on installing a 2x4 plate on the concrete flooring with glue and concrete nails. The top plate will be nailed to existing 2x4 scissor trusts. (I think there will be a double plate at the top). The vertical studs nailed to the top and bottom plates.
Edited 10/19/2009 8:40 pm ET by jimbat2239
I am under the impression that nailing your top plate to the bottom cord of the truss is a no-no. The truss moves seasonally.
better perhaps to figure a way to anchor it to the block wall beneathe the ceiling sheetrock.
Hoping some otheres will chime in here.
"When the spirits are low, when the day appears dark, when work becomes monotonous, when hope hardly seems worth having, just mount a bicycle and go out for a spin down the road, without thought on anything but the ride you are taking." — Sherlock Holmes, 1896
Eric: You said "I am under the impression that nailing your top plate to the bottom cord of the truss is a no-no. The truss moves seasonally.
better perhaps to figure a way to anchor it to the block wall beneathe the ceiling sheetrock."
The trusses are 24" OC and are perpendicular to the wall I want to build. Would that make a difference?
Jim B.
What he means is that trusses don't stay in one place -- they move up and down with changes in temperature and humidity. If you anchor to the trusses without some sort of slip joint at top or bottom, the tendency will be to pull the wall apart.I vaguely recall that an "acceptable" slip joint is a double plate, with the top one attached to the truss and the one below it attached to the top via loose bolts. (Obviously, one must avoid fastening the drywall to the top plate.) Alternatively, the slip joint can be made at the floor, so that the whole wall is lifted with the trusses. Making the slip joint at the floor allows the gap to be hidden by the baseboard, vs having to use some sort of crown molding at the joint with the ceiling.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
Aha - message understood. Now I know why I have so many nail pops in my ceiling. Time for plan B. Tear out the existing drywall, install the new studs flat against the wall with tapcon screws and fill the voids with foam panels.
Is that a better plan?
Check out the Dow Corp. They have a 2'x8' foam panel with a space let in on both long edges to accept a 3/4'' furring (1x3). It will isolate the furring from the masonry wall.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Same sort of thing Calvin's talking about above. Your local HD stocks this one.http://commercial.owenscorning.com/foam/products/insulpink.aspx'Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it' ~ Chinese proverb
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Are they floor trusses or roof trusses?
They are floor trusses.
I thought so. Floor trusses are fine to nail to, I believe.
>> The top plate will be nailed to existing 2x4 scissor trusts << scissors floor trusses - you learn something every day!! :-)
Scissor floor trusses??????
Earlier you said "scissor trusses" which would normally be interpreted here as meaning a ceiling truss for a cathedral ceiling. Confusing.Floor trusses don't tend to "move" like ceiling trusses, since they're entirely inside the "conditioned space".
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
Ok guys - you have to remember that I am "Harry the Homeowner" and not a professional carpenter. I just enjoy doing my own remodeling when I can. I apologize for my ignorance.
The trusses or joists ? are 2x4 about 16 inches apart. 2x4's in the shape of an X are sandwiched in between. Between each set of crossed 2x4 is a vertical 2x4. The trusses are 24 feet in length and are spaced 24" OC. My townhome is 3 levels and these are used between the lower level and mid-level and also between the mid-level and upper-level. They look something like this with another 2x4 on top and are fastened together with side plates.
|x|x|X|X|X|X|X|X|X
Yeah, those are fairly standard floor trusses. I don't think that most have the bracing arranged quite like you describe, but similar. (And I don't see them often enough to know what variations there may be.)Floor trusses are not (in normal use) subject to the "truss uplift" issue that roof trusses have, and, from the standpoint of installing your walls, you can attach to them like any other floor joist.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
Floor trusses don't move any significant amount next to a block wall that is supporting them. Dont' overcomplicate this. Go with plan A and insulate your stud cavity.
Thanks to all who participated in this thread. I sometimes have a tough time explaining what I want to do and using the wrong terminology on my part added to the confusion. I learned a lot from all of you. Thank you for continuing my education
It is going to be a very rainy weekend in northern virginia and hopefully, I will have the wall framed and wall board installed in time for the big game on Sunday night.
JimB.
Pictures are always good!>G<
>> I am under the impression that nailing your top plate to the bottom cord of the truss is a no-no. The truss moves seasonally. <<
Trusses are anchored to the exterior, load bearing walls. If he is just putting a new wall directly in front of the existing exterior wall, nailing the new wall to the trusses would be OK. OTOH, if the new wall is out in the middle of the room, there may be issues with nailing it to the truss bottom chord.
Just attach this wall top and bottom and you are good to go.
Technically, this is load bearing, unless that TV has a floation device built in
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If you're building the wall primarily to support the TV you don't need to waste your time or money. The block wall will better support for the TV brackets than a frame wall will. We use Wedge Bolts and have never lost a TV yet.
Yeah, the purpose and location of this wall is not clear. It it is indeed an exterior wall with block behind then I'd cut out the drywall behind the TV, install some foam, then a piece of maybe 3/4" plywood, attached to the block with toggle bolts or something similar. Then, just to be doubly sure, attach the set hanger to the plywood using a couple of toggle bolts on top (or using bolts through tee-nuts installed behind the board).
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
We did the cut out and install plywood routine for awhile but it sure ate up the time. Now we mark the furring, put the bracket on the wall so that the mounting holes are on or near the furring and mark the locations. We take the bracket down, drill 3/4" holes through the drywall, cut pieces of 1/2" PVC about 1 1/4" long and drive them in the holes on the drywall. We drill the block through the PVC, put the bracket in place and use Wedge bolts to hold it to the blocks. It's real fast, no drywall or painting needed and you could hang a truck from it.
I had never heard of wedge bolts and then googled them. Seems there are all makes and models. Can you tell me the kind and size you used?
Depends on the size of the TV and the type of mount. We use 7/16" X 5" for anything up to about 60 inches on a flat mount. If it's on one of the mounts that pulls out and turns we use 5/8" bolts and 1" PVC for the sleeve. Remember that if you can you want to drill through the furring, the sleeves are only for when the mounting holes don't quite match up with the furring.Can you put your speakers in the ceiling? Even where there's no attic it's not hard to do if you don't mind a little drywall patching. I saw one installation where the pro installers actually ran all thread through the wall and put nuts on the outside of the house! To make it even sweeter they left the all thread sticking out a foot or so but put plastic caps over the ends.Edit to add- We use mostly Powers because that's what we can get from the dealer.
Edited 10/20/2009 3:44 pm ET by florida
You are right - I was not clear about the purpose for rebuilding the wall.
First: I want to be able to hang the 58" plasma on the wall. I was certain the existing structure of the wall (1/2 inch wall board nailed to 3/4 inch furring strips) would not have enough strength to secure the mount and the TV. So my solution was to rebuild the wall. And since I was going to rebuild the way-why not add some insulation at the same time.
Second: My plan was to also have in-wall speakers (which I didn't mention in my original post (I can picture my wife smiling)). I would need a 3 1/2 inch deep cavity for the speakers. So my solution was to rebuild the wall.
Unless there is a consensus that building and securing the wall as I suggested is ok, then building the wall is going to be problematic.
So the solution may be to give up my idea of in-wall speakers and use the procedure suggested by you and Florida.