Client is getting new solid oak floors at each end of a staircase. The existing treads are 1″ fir, let into the skirts, wedged and glued. Because the existing stairs are rock solid and no squeaks (with finished ceiling underneath), I am inclined to chisel off the noses, skin the risers and skirts with 1/4″ birch ply, then install new oak treads directly over the old fir treads. Anyone have an alternate approach?
If I go this route, anyone have thoughts on best way to attach new treads to the old, screw and glue, just glue, just screw, nail? My concerns are different amounts of seasonal movement of the fir and oak. Someone suggested kerfing the underside of the oak treads to minimize potential for cupping. I’m thinking that’s overkill.
Thoughts?
Thanks
Replies
Probably a bad idea, doing this will make the first riser taller than the rest and the top riser will become the smallest one, possibly giving you up to a two inch or more difference in riser heights, in my area your allowed 3/8's of an inch.
Say your riser height is 7 inches, doing this will make your first riser 8 inches maybe and the top riser will be around 6 inches.
70043.1
Client is getting new solid oak floors at each end of a staircase.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
DOH!!!
Mr. T.
There's a steering-wheel in me pants and it's driving me nuts!!!
Son of a......... who put that in there. I'll take that sucker punch now Calvin, I read over that part. I think this will be fine for him to do if he uses the same thickness treads as his hardwood floor.
Edited 2/23/2006 5:59 am ET by Stilletto
Can you get underneath the stairs? I'm thinking that screwing the new treads from under/behind with a slightly elongated hole would do the trick. Glue the new riser to the new tread (the one it intersects at the inside) but cover the riser with the nose at the next one without glue to allow for movement.
Norse
I'd probably glue screw and plug the new treads on. Sometimes a plug from a different wood looks good.
Maybe even Miller Dowels they are a taperd threaded plug almost like driving a wooden peg, it's a matched system stepped drill bit and stepped plugs, they come in all popular hardwoods too. drill your hole squeeze glue into the holes and drive the dowel home and sand it flush. The dowels will be endgrain though so you will be able to see them if clear coated.
Edited 2/23/2006 6:28 am ET by Stilletto
I know why you are doing it this way, but I don't like it.
Your plywood stringers are going to be a PITA to cut and fit well, and they really need to be done after the new threads to cover the side edges. You will be adding extra weight to the whole stairs, and everything's just going to be more or less cosmetic. With the effort and materials that you are putting in, I don't see a big savings to the customer vis-a-vis a new set of stairs.
That said, with respect to the new threads, I don't think I would glue them. Like you said, seasonal variation in the wood will probably create a broken glue joint or a split panel before long. I was trying to think of a way that you could set up a joint on the sides like a bread board end on a farmhouse table - where there is essentially one pin in the middle of the joint (tongue) to allow for expansion and contraction. The problem is that type of system doesn't offer you the strength you want, and it's a tough area to work. You would need to slide the new threads in from the front.
You are probably going to need to screw them down, then plug the holes so the heads can be gotten to later if need be. I would not try to solidly glue the two threads together and wouldn't think of using nails. Actually I think you should put resin paper between them to try and stop squeaks from the movement of the wood.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
Edit - What you could also do is make the screw holes on the threads elongated so the wood could move a little.
Edited 2/23/2006 11:42 am ET by DonK
Why bother with anything other than the treads? Carefully saw the existing nosings back to the riser, then hack them off the treads at least as far back as the riser faces. Fit new treads the same thickness as the flooring onto the existing treads, but run the new only as far as the front edge of the riser, or maybe an rch past the riser. Scrape the existing finish off the old treads, and glue the new on top of them. There's no worry about seasonal movement as the long grain of both the old and the new is going in the same direction. Just glue the snot out of it to avoid squeaks. Make new nosings at least as thick as the old treads were, and biscuit and glue them to the new treads. Throw in new cove below, and charge 'em out the wazoo.
The Collins Tool Co. makes a fairly snazzy and inexpensive jig for templating treads that have to fit between stringers.
Andy
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." Robert A. Heinlein
"Get off your dead #### and on your dying feet." Mom
Andy - When he cuts the nosings back, you will see the scars on the stringers. That's why he's covering them.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
They won't if he uses slightly larger nosings. Oh, wait, he'd have to use something like a 2 in. thick nosing to cover, wouldn't he? Sure, then plywood's a good idea. It's probably not practical to fit it well enough to the risers that no filler would be needed, so there's the need for covering the risers.
One other approach would be to chisel out the remains of the old nosings and install Dutchmen. That might not be so hard as the treads are probably not glued at the nosings. Take a piece of material the thickness of the treads and bullnose the end grain to the same radius as the existing treads. Rip fillers out of this the same thickness as the tread mortises, cut to length, glue in place. Sand and fill as need be, then install the new treads and nosings. Andy
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." Robert A. Heinlein
"Get off your dead #### and on your dying feet." Mom
For whatever it's worth, this past summer I did a "retread" just as you describe. Oak treads were attached to the existing with construction adhesive and pinned in place with finish nails to hold them together while the adhesive dried. Filled the finish nail holes and after sanding and poly, looks as if they had always been there. No callbacks or complaints (yet? -- first time done it that way so fingers remain crossed). Of course, goes without saying use the adhesive designed for wood-to-wood connection. It keeps just enough of it's "give" even after it dries to allow for seasonal movement, but it won't move enough to squeak.
As another thought along the same lines (wish I had thought of this last summer), maybe use the type of adhesive designed for glue down wood floor installation (the "Roberts" brand comes to mind). That stuff definitely keeps a good bit of "give" to allow seasonal movement but no squeaks.
Anyway, best of luck with it.
i am going to do something as you described in this post....did you ever hear back if there was any squeaky? Just curious...and where would this Roberts brand wood to wood glue be sold at...Home Depot? Thank you in advance for your time.
"I hate quotations. Tell me what you know" Ralph Waldo Emerson
>>"did you ever hear back if there was any squeaky?
Absolutely no problems. The father of the girl who owns the house is a commercial builder here in town so I am positive that I'd get a call back if there were the slightest problem.
For the Roberts adhesives, any good flooring distributor will have it. Here is a link where you can type in your zip code and see where to buy:
http://www.robertsconsolidated.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=dsp_content&subaction=dsp_dist
PL Premium is another option.
Please post pix when you are done. Best of luck with it.
"Let's get crack-a-lackin" --- Adam Carolla
thank you for the link....there is actually a place to get that stuff up here in Winnipeg, Manitoba.
"I hate quotations. Tell me what you know" Ralph Waldo Emerson
Man, where the hell you been hiding out?
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
" If ya plan to face tomorrow, do it soon"
>>"Man, where the hell you been hiding out?
Hiding in Philly. Busy with a rehab. Finally got the permits a couple few months ago and it's been like the first part of a roller coaster ride (lots going on and moving fast).
My business partner is on vacation for a couple weeks so I finally have a little time to see what you guys have been up to. Hope everybody is doing well.
"Let's get crack-a-lackin" --- Adam Carolla
I guess that is good..(G)
Yeah, we all be fine mostly. Take awhile and catch up.
Ya missed a nearby fest, well, I did too. Sounded like a hoot.
Good to see ya back, even if it is a short visit.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
" If ya plan to face tomorrow, do it soon"